I’ve been duped..... (1 Viewer)

Hello Pronghunter,

Don't quit. Folks on this forum may be argumentative but do not let anyone shut you down. You found that your money was well spent on the Maven, which is perfectly valid. There is a fellow on this forum who maintained that the Tract was as good as a Zeiss. His opinions were personal. Of course, the interface between a binocular and a user is very personal and may trump, if I may use that word, many other factors. The binocular forum on BF can become very contentious, and is highly influenced by how much some people invest both money and emotion in objects which are two tubes to make things look closer. There are few, if any, on this forum who have an optical bench and can state facts.

However, I will add one observation. I bought a good binocular, but not a great binocular, from an importer with direct sales. The binocular was highly touted on this forum but the importer went out of business, so the lifetime guarantee was good for the lifetime of the importer. Of the major firms, both Zeiss and Nikon are great optical and engineering firms which are likely to be in business for decades, even in world of constant change.

Happy nature observing,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

Pronghunter,

I did not get on with the SF myself, but I have other Zeiss glass I like very much. We all have our preferences and opinions and that is fine, so stick around for a while - see how you like it here. By the way I have the Meopta in 7 and 8X42 both great glass, the 10X42 looks like a nice size for a 10X42, I take it that was the HD 10X42 Meostar model you were referring to.

Andy W.

dries1 said:

I wonder then, what the Mavens would cost if they went through the same business model as the big companies. Personally if one is looking for a premium glass, buy it used (not abused) and not at the retail asking price.

Andy W.

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Andy,
I just don't think there would be TOO much difference in the price. It's not like Maven is the MANUFACTURER(Kamakura?). Maven is the importer so they buy binoculars then mark them up to selling price. Swarovski makes their binoculars then sells to the dealer who marks them up to selling price. Maven IS the "dealer" for their binoculars. I'm one of those people that believes with few exceptions, a $1000 binocular is worth exactly $1000. Maybe Maven "saves" us 10-20% at best?

Two examples of Maven-like products are the now d/c Kite Lynx(Maven B.3) and the Leupold BX-5 Santiam 56mm binoculars(Maven B.4). Pretty sure Eagle Optics sold the Kite Lynx for EXACTLY the same price as Maven sells the B.3. In some instances the BX-5 Leupold can be found for a hundred or so less than the Maven B.4.

To the OP:
I've owned several Maven models...I guess I've owned a B.1, B.2, B.3. AND B.4 if you can believe it! I like a Maven product. Every one I've had have been well-made and a quality product. Customer service has been good too. I've used the B.1 8X42 and the B.2 9X45 pretty extensively. I like them. I still have the B.1 8X42. I will say I have never found any Maven binocular to have the edge to edge, flat field performance of a Swarovski EL Swarovison or a Zeiss SF for that matter. There sure isn't anything wrong with a Maven being your favorite regardless of my findings or anyone else.

Maven is still a new kid on the block. I know of several on BF that won't buy their product simply because they are leary of brand longevity. The "lifetime" warranty is only as good as the company is viable. Personally I wish Maven the best.

Pronghunter said:

I was not aware there were places we were not aloud to go on the forum. That’s why I stated “to me” or in my opinion. Sorry, but the particular pair of Zeiss SF I have do not impress. The fact that would ruffle feathers says a lot. It’s my honest opinion whether it impresses or not. Too be quite honest, Im sending the Zeiss SF in to have evaluated. I purchased them based on several reviews and opinions. They have been quite the opposite. I’m too the point of thinking these may not be of (Zeiss) quality. We spent the day and evening evaluating or comparing MY Zeiss SF to a friends Meopta Meostar B1 10x42 and the difference was undoubtedly different. Meopta was so nice in every way optically (not so much in the hand though ��) compared to the Zeiss. Sorry, but even the Meostar was clearer, brighter, cleaner and so on. At dusk they really shined. In all fairness to the forum, I probably should have joined optics talk instead simply because I don’t watch birds near enough to be part of a bird forum, although I do enjoy it. I joined for the most part, there are some experts and real knowledge on here. Good place to learn from. I’ll just quit now and no need to continue.

Thanks

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Hey Prongy
No need to leave this forum. All opinions are valued here and because of this you can expect folks with different experiences from your own to speak up too. Sometimes you might be told that you are wrong but more and more it becomes clear that the experiences we have with binos can be very personal.

Gilmore Girl's thread is a great example of this. Two of my personal favourites are SF 8x42 and Meopta's MeoStar 8x42 or 32. When it comes to reproduction of the scene I am looking at I find they are very similar and what differences there may be don't leap out at me and slap me on the face. What does make a big difference is SF's fov, weight and handling, but this doesn't take anything away from the enjoyment I experience with the Meoptas.

Lee

Chuck
Someone in the business who knows about far east manufacture has commented that Maven's saving to the customer could be much greater and from what he said your estimate of how much they actually pass on is about right.

As for Swaro (and Leica and Zeiss) the factory applies a mark-up and sells to their local company or agent/distributor in the market who in turn apply a mark-up and sell to the dealer who does the same to sell to the end purchaser.

Lee

Members come and go, not the end of the world and everyone has the right to choose their path. Some can engage and listen or accept comment whilst others take another view. BF has much to offer in debate on a variety of topics and from many experienced contributors.

If the Maven B2 series had black armor and a blue Zeiss logo, nobody would bat an eye at a $2,200 price tag. Like Chuck points out, they are optically superb, well constructed, quality instruments. With the Zeiss logo Zeiss would have gotten praise for yet another fine example of a AK prism glass.

Pronghunter, my advice to you is to simply ignore Jerry. He has a deep history of insulting posts like he unloaded on you. Why he does that is a mystery.

Yes, I did a review of the B2 in 2015. My opinion of them stands.

Pronghunter said:

I was not aware there were places we were not aloud to go on the forum. That’s why I stated “to me” or in my opinion. Sorry, but the particular pair of Zeiss SF I have do not impress. The fact that would ruffle feathers says a lot. It’s my honest opinion whether it impresses or not. Im sending the Zeiss SF in to have evaluated. I purchased them based on several reviews and opinions. They have been quite the opposite. I’m too the point of thinking these may not be of (Zeiss) quality. We spent the day and evening evaluating or comparing MY Zeiss SF to a friends Meopta Meostar B1 10x42 and the difference was undoubtedly different. Meopta was so nice in every way optically (not so much in the hand though ��) compared to the Zeiss. Sorry, but even the Meostar was clearer, brighter, cleaner and so on. At dusk they really shined. In all fairness to the forum, I probably should have joined optics talk instead simply because I don’t watch birds near enough to be part of a bird forum, although I do enjoy it. I joined for the most part, there are some experts and real knowledge on here. Good place to learn from. I’ll just quit now and no need to continue.

Thanks

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I was wrong on how I attacked you with the previous post, we all have
preferences and I am sorry.

Jerry

LesR said:

I see SteveC did a review on here of the Maven B2 9x45 back in 2015, so they have at least lasted 4 years.

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Yes, and Steve rated them highly as well. It should not be wondered at that Kamakura Koki is, when called upon to do so, able to manufacture excellent binoculars. I'd certainly like to try the 9x45 model.

11 magnification is a bit unusual; from experience with 8.5 mag versus 8, I do agree the extra mag probably does result in a slight but noticeable increase in detail.

The original poster is very fortunate not only in having been able to try four excellent binoculars in Montana's big country for two months, but most of all in having the eyesight of youth.

Yo Pronghunter,

Cool Man. Glad you found something that you like. I'll have to check these out. A couple other Mavens have caught my eye, but I haven't yet had the pleasure of looking through any of them.

Thanks for including an exotic configuration like an 11x45 in your comparative review. I wish there was a little more experimentation in configurations in the top tiers of binocular manufacturing, so it is refreshing to see a company that isn't afraid to take a little risk in this way.

With all due respect to the companies in the top tier, they have been around a lot longer than I have, and their past experiments define modern binoculars.

-as you were, q