After much deliberation, Nikon EDG 8x32 (1 Viewer)

Hello all,

This is my first post on the forum.
Recently I have been pondering the purchase of a new high end pair of binoculars. I had settled on the 8x32 format and was considering strongly the Zeiss Victory T FL, Leica Ultravid HD and to a lesser extent the Swarovski SV all of which can be found for the same scary price within $50 of each other.
The Nikon looked great and I have experience with their cameras and lenses but was generally about $500 more here for some reason so was out of the running.
Unfortunately there is nowhere within a reasonable distance to handle these binoculars so I did extensive reading of reviews etc and was prepared to take a chance of ordering online.
Anyway I was bouncing back and forth between the Leica and Zeiss and was just about ready to go one way or the other when I stumbled upon an offer through a Nikon store on the EDG for $300 less than the others I was considering which came in at a more digestible $2000 so I jumped on it instantly.
I possibly won't receive them until after easter so they'll be much anticipated.
Just wanted to share my experience and look forward to feedback on the EDG relating to my other choices.
Hopefully I've chosen the right one for me but I feel I couldn't go wrong considering the choices.

Cheers,

Dave

Dave .... Welcome to the Forum.

All of the binoculars you listed are excellent and none would be a bad choice. Each has their strengths and weaknesses so the goal is to try and match those up to your own priorities. If the score is basically a draw, then selecting the best deal is not a bad way to go.

I think the closest match to the Nikon EDG 8X32 is the Swaro SV 8X32 EL because they both have lens flatteners. I wanted a flat field binocular and went with the Nikon about two years ago and have no regrets. After looking at what was important to me, I thought the Nikon was the best match. If I had different priorities, then the Swaro may have won out.

Here is what I like about the Nikon:
- Easily the best focus mechanism. Smooth, no play or sticking, and equal tension in both directions.
- No rolling ball for me.
- Handles glare well.
- Fit my hands well.
- Easy eye placement.
- And of course like the others, excellent optics.

Negatives compared to other brands are:
- It is slightly heavier and a little bigger.
- Slightly smaller FOV compared to the Swaro.
- Nikon service reputation is good but not like Swaro here in the US.
- US warranty and Policy has recently been downgraded in the US.
- Does not retain resale value as well in the US.
- Extremely difficult to find in stores.

There are more Swaro owners on this Forum than EDG owners and they have good reasons for going with the Swaro SV EL. However this is the Nikon sub forum and so I hope they will not get to carried away in expressing their Swaro love. For the most part, it appears each brand buyer seems to be happy with their purchase.

Please post back and let us know how they work out for you and congratulations on your purchase.

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the welcome.
Your summary is pretty well inline with what I had thought. The choices I was looking at all had aspects that I liked with some compromises here and there.
I must say that after looking through a Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 that I was very impressed by the field flattener so I'll take that as a bonus in choosing the Nikon and the increased size and weight over the Leica and Zeiss as a compromise.
I'm confident that once in my hands and put to use I'll no longer wonder if I should have gone with the Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss.
I've read that the EDG isn't the brightest in low light which may be a concern but probably not a major one?
Anyway, I look forward to reporting back with my initial thoughts on the EDG.

Hi Dave,

In the event that you might be looking to save some money you should know that Nikon still has its old 8x32 Premier, formerly the top of their line. It used to be the LX L but they changed the name after the EDG came out. It has a flat field too like the EDG and the same FOV. Eye relief is a bit shorter at 17mm.

It costs about $1,000.00 less than the EDG. What it does not have are dielectric prisms and ED glass. It still has silver coated prisms and it focuses very fast, faster than the EDG. It is too fast for some people but I have no problems with mine. It also has a long history of durability. The 1st version of the EDG had problems with the diopter and the armoring.

I also have a 10x32 LX L (now discontinued) which got a lot of use from me until I got a 10x32 EDG.

If you want to pay the money there is no question in my mind that the EDG is a better binocular than the Premier/LX L. It is brighter, has better color and a slower focus wheel and better ergonomics, more modern coatings and better glare resistance. But the Premier is still a real good binocular.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I believe that model is called the HG L here? Anyway, it looks like a great option which I had previously considered. The funny thing is that the few places that still have stock here want $2100 for them which is very close the approx. $2300 price tag of the German/Austrian models I was considering, not that the HG L wouldn't hold it's own.
I didn't want to import a pair as by the time I paid the conversion rate and tax I'd be saving little to nothing for one thing.
When I discovered the EDG (current model) for $1999 (AUD) from a local Nikon run internet store there was nothing more to debate in my mind.
Looking forward to the EDG's arrival.

Cheers

One thing occurred to me that I forgot to mention before, the lack of any hydrophobic coating on the lenses. Perhaps Bruce or any other EDG users could comment on how well the lenses handle without it compared to binoculars that do?

F88 said:

Hi Bob,

I believe that model is called the HG L here? Anyway, it looks like a great option which I had previously considered. The funny thing is that the few places that still have stock here want $2100 for them which is very close the approx. $2300 price tag of the German/Austrian models I was considering, not that the HG L wouldn't hold it's own.
I didn't want to import a pair as by the time I paid the conversion rate and tax I'd be saving little to nothing for one thing.
When I discovered the EDG (current model) for $1999 (AUD) from a local Nikon run internet store there was nothing more to debate in my mind.
Looking forward to the EDG's arrival.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Yes. LX L was the designation for them in the USA. Everywhere else it was HG L.

I certainly would not spend $2100.00 for one and I would not buy the 42mm models of the HG L/Premier at all because they were notorious for "Rolling Ball" syndrome when you panned with them. The 42mm models also had narrow FOVs.

I am confident that you will like your 8x32 EDG.:t:

The only advise I have for you is that after you set the diopter on it make sure that the cover on the Focus Wheel is pushed back in all the way so that it completely covers the diopter setting wheel.

Bob

F88 said:

................
I've read that the EDG isn't the brightest in low light which may be a concern but probably not a major one?
.............

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Here are some light transmission figures from the Allbino's web page:
- Nikon 10X42 EDG 88.5% (June, 2011)
- Nikon 8X42 EDG 89.9% (July, 2012)
- Nikon 8X32 SE 89.1% (June, 2011)
- Swaro 10X42 SV EL 90.8% (July, 2011)
- Swaro 8.5X42 SV EL 87.8% (Dec., 2012)
- Leica 8X32 Ultravid HD 91.7% (April, 2011)
- Zeiss 8X32 T* FL 94.6% (May, 2011)

They have not tested the Nikon EDG 8X32 or the Swaro 8X32 SV EL so sorry to say no actual figures for those two. I have compared the Nikon EDG 8X32 to the Nikon EDG 10X42 and the 8X32 SE and they all appeared similar to me in brightness. I would assume the EDG 8X32 would test in the 89% area, which is in line with the others. There are several posts saying there has to be at 3% or more difference to be noticed. Same size binoculars with a similar transmission number may look different in perceived brightness due to a difference in the transmission curve.

Since you went with an 8X32 rather than an 8X42, that implies very dim viewing was not a high priority. I doubt you will have any complaints on the light gathering of the EDG 8X32.

F88 said:

One thing occurred to me that I forgot to mention before, the lack of any hydrophobic coating on the lenses. Perhaps Bruce or any other EDG users could comment on how well the lenses handle without it compared to binoculars that do?

Click to expand...

Viewing in the rain is not something that a desert rat like me does. When it rains, I am inside or in the truck looking out closed windows! Also, most of what I want to see is also hiding out so there is not much to see. I can not provide any actual field results on how it handles rain.

I have done a test flicking drops of water on the objective of the EDG and some other binoculars claimed to have hydrophobic coatings and I did not notice any difference. Small beads of water stuck to all and the big beads shook off. I do not know how this relates to what would happen out in field use.

Water repellent coatings are also claimed to repeal dirt and make the lenses easier to clean. I have not noticed any difference between the EDG and others in attracting dirt or in being more difficult to clean.

The same question came to mind when I was looking to purchase the EDG. Here is the thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=226549

I never was able to conclude if the EDG has hydrophobic qualities and Nikon just does not mention it. There is a comment in the thread saying some AR coatings resist scratching and shed water. Only Nikon knows and they are not talking.

I ultimately decided it was not a factor for me since I do not view in the rain.

Diopter Adjustment:

Bob brings up a good point in discussing the diopter adjustment of the EDG. It can be a little tricky. You must "pull out" the focus knob to get to the diopter adjustment knob. In doing so, it is very easy to inadvertently turn the main focus knob and change the base focus. I put the EDG on a flat surface to steady it, pinch the knob between two fingers and make sure I pull straight out without rotating the knob. I then make sure I do not rotate the diopter wheel when pushing the focus knob back in. As Bob mentioned, make sure and push it all the way in so it locks in place. On edit: I suggest you redo the diopter adjustment multiple times over a couple of days to make sure it is right. I do this with all binoculars, not just the EDG. I suspect some binocular owners have sharpness issues because they only set the diopter one time and did not get it right. If one can not consistently get the same result and it is being doing correctly, then there is a problem with the binocular.

Some people have mentioned diopter shift. There have been a few that had a mechanical problem, especially the prior EDG I version. However the problem for some was a usage issue. The diopter wheel is always engaged but is covered by the focus knob. A very small amount of the edge of the diopter wheel extends past the focus knob. It is possible, but difficult, to rotate the diopter wheel if the finger overlaps the front of the knob. Also if the focus knob is out of round (which would be a defect) or if extreme pressure is put on the knob, it is possible for it to catch on the diopter wheel and cause it to rotate. I only mention this to make you aware of what could remotely happen. I do not view it as a design or quality issue and the likelihood of you having such a problem is slim at best.

BruceH said:

...However the problem for some was a usage issue...I do not view it as a design or quality issue...

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Wow, you are much more forgiving than I am of design. Unless impossible to achieve, I like designs that work reliably under a wide range of conceivable conditions of use. So this diopter seems a bad design to me. I once had use of a Volvo 850 sedan. It had a problem with water pooling around the boot lid and getting into the trunk. The problem turned out to be that the car's "elegantly hidden" drainage canals/tubes were easily plugged by fallen tree leaves. I was told that it was not a flaw in the car, but that it should not be parked under trees. I guess most happy Volvo 850 owners lived in parts of the country without perpetually shedding trees or else they had covered garages.

--AP

Yes, they could have designed it better, but I just do not see it being a problem. Consider my comments similar to the lawyer warnings you see in a car owners manual. They mention all kinds of scenerios although very unlikely. You have to go through some unusual contorted motions to inadvertently change the diopter setting but if it is possible, someone will do it. Once informed on what is happening, it should be easy to resolve the problem. Many binoculars have the diopter ring on the right barrel and it is exposed to being inadvertently turned, much more so than the EDG diopter wheel. I do not think it is a bad design, but I am aware to be careful not to turn it after it is adjusted.

On some binoculars, you can twist the eye cup off if turning to far. Is that a bad design, I do not thing so. It is not a problem once you know how to operate it.

The diopter on the EDG isn't any harder to set, IMO, that the diopters on my Zeiss 7x42 FL, or my Leica 8x42 Ultravid or even the "push and set" one on my 7x42 SLC B and it is better than the older Leica Trinovid. They are all a problem for someone with big fingers. I have no idea why they were put in that position to begin with.

The Nikon LX L/HG L full size binoculars have the best one I ever used. It is on the right ocular. You pull it out to to set it and push it back in to lock it. It doesn't move. It is simple, precise and trouble free.

Bob

Thanks for the input Bob and Bruce.
You're correct about light gathering power not being a priority hence my choice of 8x32. It does appear that the Zeiss 8x32 is very bright for an 8x32.
Regarding the water repelling coatings they probably aren't a huge factor to me either. While I intend to use the EDG as my main binoculars under all conditions I don't foresee any trouble. My main idea was that they may be easier to clean as I've noticed that droplets can dry on lenses and leave spots which require a little more effort to clean.
Funny thing is that I have a pair with such coatings but it's never been used in conditions to test the properties of the coatings. Binoculars without the coating I've used in rain and on boats getting water spray have ended up with spots on the lenses from dried water droplets.
Thanks for the info on the diopter adjustment also, I'll keep that in mind.
Got a call from the Nikon lady yesterday, should have them mid next week.

Received my EDG's today and gave them a quick test this afternoon.
They appear quite sharp with nice colour and contrast, handling is good. However, they have the dreaded diopter creep that I've read so much of (unfortunately after I'd already ordered mine) which is a big disappointment. The diopter would steadily make it's way towards the negative end small steps at a time but certain no less. I would have thought, or hoped, that Nikon had got their act together but apparently not.
I've already emailed Nikon and will probably speed up a response with a phone call tomorrow. Not sure where to go from here but I'll find out what my options are and go from there.

F88,

If you are having a diopter problem I suggest that you promptly send the binocular back to Nikon. I am confident that they will replace it for you.

Just a thought here:

I recall reading that pressure put on the front cover of the focus wheel while using it could cause it to make contact with the diopter wheel underneath and move it. You might try positioning your index finger further back on the focus wheel and see how that works before you send it back.

Discussions about the new Nikon EDG series first appeared on Bird Forum on January 19, 2008 in post #79 in this thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=103957&page=4

As near as I can determine the issue of the creeping diopter did not come up until December 2010.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=187898

I had purchased a 10x32 EDG I at Nikon's close out sale of them in June of 2010. The EDG I was sold exclusively in the USA. Nikon then replaced them with the EDG II in the USA which was also being sold in Europe.

I have never had a diopter problem with either the EDG I or the EDG II. The covering on my EDG I began to come lose in June 2014 so I sent it back to Nikon for repair under their warranty. Nikon chose to replace my 10x32 EDG I with a new 10x32 EDG II and I have been using it since without any problems.

Bob

I really wanted to like these binoculars so last night I tested then retested the diopter for unwanted movement then I just played with the focus and diopter wheel rolling mainly the engaged focus wheel back and forth the full travel of it's run then occasionally rechecking to see if the diopter position had changed.
Well, here's the interesting part, perhaps I worked it in or something but it now appears to stay put?
It was quite easy to get the diopter to fail, shift position, at first but after my extensive back and forth rolling procedure it looks to have corrected itself. No more shifting diopter and after testing again this morning it still stays put which is great news to me because I want to stick with the EDG.
Not sure if this procedure could help others with the shifting diopter issue but mine appears to be working as it should now and at this stage I am now not inclined to return them.
On another positive note, with hopefully more to continue, I watched some King Parrots yesterday through the EDG which I spotted in flight and quickly focused on while they were on the move to a large area of canopy. Good stuff.

Thought I was in the clear but there's still obvious dramas with these binoculars.
Slow physical movement of the diopter wheel is occurring and I now have to set the diopter position a further 2 full points to obtain correct focus.
I also don't appear to have much travel left in focus accommodation at infinity as it's pretty much at the end to obtain distant focus. I remember having plenty of room to go past infinity at first, diopter position doesn't change things as it has to be a touch off full lock to get infinity focus.
What's going on?

The diopter should not be doing that and it clearly is not going to get better.

Did you register the binocular with Nikon after you received it?

It looks like you are going to have to send it back to Nikon for warranty repair or replacement.

This was not difficult for me to do here in the USA with my 10x32 EDG I and I had owned mine for 4 years before the problems I described in Post #14 above appeared.

Their procedure here in the USA is very efficient. I phoned Nikon Support in the USA and was sent instructions where to send it by e-mail. Except for a couple of phone calls everything was done through e-mail and I was able to track everything by e-mail. Nikon replaced mine with a new EDG II. There was a delay so I phoned them again and they told me they had to get the new replacement from Japan. The whole process took 3 weeks.

I suggest that you contact Nikon Australia by phone ASAP on this issue and start the ball rolling.

Bob

F88 said:

I really wanted to like these binoculars so last night I tested then retested the diopter for unwanted movement then I just played with the focus and diopter wheel rolling mainly the engaged focus wheel back and forth the full travel of it's run then occasionally rechecking to see if the diopter position had changed.
Well, here's the interesting part, perhaps I worked it in or something but it now appears to stay put?
It was quite easy to get the diopter to fail, shift position, at first but after my extensive back and forth rolling procedure it looks to have corrected itself. No more shifting diopter and after testing again this morning it still stays put which is great news to me because I want to stick with the EDG.
Not sure if this procedure could help others with the shifting diopter issue but mine appears to be working as it should now and at this stage I am now not inclined to return them.
On another positive note, with hopefully more to continue, I watched some King Parrots yesterday through the EDG which I spotted in flight and quickly focused on while they were on the move to a large area of canopy. Good stuff.

Click to expand...

The only thing I like less than a creepy picture is a creepy diopter. The EDG I was infamous for this problem, but it appears that the EDG II is not immune to it either since there have been several reports of this problem with the newer model over the past few years.

Off to Nikon repairs they go. As long your bins are not refurbs, the repairs should be covered for a low flat fee.

Let us know how you make out.

Brock

Update.
Spoke to Nikon service and they have arranged for the binoculars to be picked up tomorrow morning. I'm glad they organised freight for me as I don't particularly feel like paying for freight or investing the time to arrange it.
I wouldn't expect any low flat fee whatsoever on a brand new pair of binoculars (expensive ones at that) that were delivered faulty so it looks like Nikon are doing what they should in this case so far by picking up the item at no charge to me for inspection under warranty.
It's been a real let down but I live in hope that they will return a fully functional EDG that will provide years of trouble free use even if it does take a few weeks to be sorted out.
On the note of looking for positives I can say that they are optically a nice pair of binoculars when they aren't hindered by their mechanical flaws. Sharp almost to the edge, no discernible distortion or odd behaviour while panning, good contrast, good natural colours that are very true to life with no appreciable cool or warm bias, decent handling and feel with a nice smooth focus.
Things I don't like are the diopter/focus problem with mine obviously, slightly loose fitting rubber armour particularly around the objective lenses, tiny bit of play when changing direction on the focus although it is well damped so it is most often not noticed and finally the lack of water repellent coatings which I tested against a Vortex Viper HD which basically shed water 100% with no fuss leaving the lenses spotless against the Nikon which just wouldn't shake the droplets entirely no matter what you do which makes use in wet conditions or cleaning much more bothersome.
That's my rant for now, it's been pretty deflating so far creating thoughts of should have bought A B or C instead like the SV but I'm just looking forward to getting a functional pair of binoculars back ASAP and being able to enjoy them rather than small bouts of enjoyment between extensive testing of failed critical functions and further scrutinisation.
I'll check back in when I have more to report and thank you to those who have taken the time to provide constructive feedback (which is basically everyone who has contributed to the thread).

Dave

Dave ...... Sorry to read about the diopter problem with your new EDG. but it is good to read Nikon is taking care of it. Hope you get it back soon so you can start enjoying some great views.

My assumption has been the EDG you received is a second generation EDG-II but I don't think that has been explicitly stated. Is your new Nikon a second generation EDG-II with the larger single rear hinge or is a first generation EDG-I with the double hinge design? The comment on the loose armor would be more likely with the EDG-I (Bob's problem) than the EDG-II, thus my question.

Thanks.

1st gen EDG-I http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Product-Archive/Binoculars/7563/EDG-8x32.html

2nd gen EDG-II http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Binoculars/7568/EDG-8x32.html