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Mining application for open cast mining at Druridge Bay (1 Viewer)

The Dutch parliament has decided to close down it's coal industry as help towards climate change according to the environmental section of The Guardian.. I think it would be a good thing if the UK parliament did the same here.
Ian.
The Netherlands coal industry closed in the mid 70s. They haven't mined any coal for decades in Limburg.

http://www.citg.tudelft.nl/nl/over-...related-links/coal-mining-in-the-netherlands/

The Guardian report actually says

'The Dutch parliament has voted for a 55% cut in CO2 emissions by 2030, which would require the closure of all the country’s coal-fired power plants.
The unexpected vote on Thursday night by 77 to 72 would bring the Netherlands clearly into line with the Paris climate agreement, with some of the most ambitious climate policies in Europe.
It is not binding on the government, but the Liberal and Labour parties say they will now push for speedy implementation of the motion.
Five Dutch coal-fired power stations were closed last year but the country still has another five plants in operation. Three of these came online in 2015, and have been blamed for a 5% rise in the country’s emissions last year.
'

What has been announced isn't even the closure of their five remaining coal fired power stations - it's a vote to cut emissions, which would require their closure if it was to be taken up by the government. An entirely different thing.

If you can't tell the difference between a coal mine and a power station, what hope is there?
 
The Netherlands coal industry closed in the mid 70s. They haven't mined any coal for decades in Limburg.

http://www.citg.tudelft.nl/nl/over-...related-links/coal-mining-in-the-netherlands/

The Guardian report actually says

'The Dutch parliament has voted for a 55% cut in CO2 emissions by 2030, which would require the closure of all the country’s coal-fired power plants.
The unexpected vote on Thursday night by 77 to 72 would bring the Netherlands clearly into line with the Paris climate agreement, with some of the most ambitious climate policies in Europe.
It is not binding on the government, but the Liberal and Labour parties say they will now push for speedy implementation of the motion.
Five Dutch coal-fired power stations were closed last year but the country still has another five plants in operation. Three of these came online in 2015, and have been blamed for a 5% rise in the country’s emissions last year.
'

What has been announced isn't even the closure of their five remaining coal fired power stations - it's a vote to cut emissions, which would require their closure if it was to be taken up by the government. An entirely different thing.

If you can't tell the difference between a coal mine and a power station, what hope is there?
That's why Druridge Bay opencast mining shouldn't be started, as that would be one of the causes of climate change and don't say it's true as there is a big majority saying that is a cause of climate change by a big majority and there are hundreds of articles about that on the Internet with evidence. If you don't believe me do a google search.
Ian,
 
'Coal industry' can mean 'coal-using industry' as well as 'coal-producing industry'. Ian's comment is fair :t:

It never meant that in my thirty-odd years of working in the coal industry. Maybe we should distort language in a Humpty-Dumpty kind of way to meet the misconceptions of those who haven't a clue what they are talking about.

'Coal industry' and 'Electricity Generating Industry' have never meant the same thing - ever. Not even when almost all of our electricity was produced from coal.

Ian's comment is not 'fair'. It's 100% inaccurate.
 
It never meant that in my thirty-odd years of working in the coal industry. Maybe we should distort language in a Humpty-Dumpty kind of way to meet the misconceptions of those who haven't a clue what they are talking about.

'Coal industry' and 'Electricity Generating Industry' have never meant the same thing - ever. Not even when almost all of our electricity was produced from coal.

Ian's comment is not 'fair'. It's 100% inaccurate.

Just out of interest do you believe in climate change caused by man?
Ian.
 
because journalists told you so?

its a theory, not a LAW. There are many scientists who oppose the theory. Only the gullible think its a fact.

Dont pin your life on other folks dodgy ideology.

The level of CO2 in the atmosphere in the period since the 1850's is higher than it has been in the last 800,000 years at least (Antarctic ice cores), and the source of that CO2 is fossil fuel combustion (level of C13 vs. C14 isotopes) caused by the activities of man. The acidity of the oceans is also increasing as they absorb CO2, but the historic data is lacking so we cannot say how this compares will past eons. So man caused climate change is a fact, no doubt. And I'm not aware of any accredited scientist that disputes this. What is disputed is what the effect of this will be, and even more so, what (if anything) should be done.
An alarming number of people seem to believe varying interpretations of 'God will sort it out', or something equally avoidant.

The future is likely to include burning fossil fuels (including coal) for a while yet unfortunately.

The future is indeed dodgy, but the science is not.
 
May I just direct everyone to the original post on this thread, which seemed to suggest that if Highthorn was to be approved it would destroy Druridge Bay, an absolute nonsense in itself, seeing as how most of the hinterland of Druridge Bay has already been mined continuously between the 1950s and most recently four or so years ago with Steadsburn site, yet it somehow has survived.

Since then, the site has been approved for working by the County Council, but for reasons that appear to have been political it has been called in for a public inquiry that will involve both the taxpayer and the developer expense running into probably six figures each, all of which will find its way into the pockets of lawyers and barristers. After this public inquiry, which will no doubt find that the site was approved correctly under current planning law, the site will proceed.

However, for those who see this as a victory, bear in mind that but for this political interference the site would have started a year, maybe two earlier than it will. More importantly it will end a year, maybe two later than it would, meaning that any environmental improvements will be delivered that much later. So much for 'caring for the environment'. For those who are worried about improvements promised not being delivered, how precisely to they think that getting the developer committed to hundreds of thousands of pounds of legal costs will make his spending of money on environmental improvements any easier?

Secondly, away from the OP, which threatened the destruction of Druridge Bay (which as has been shown will not be affected, since the site is not actually on Druridge Bay) we have moved on to the ludicrous suggestion that if this site, with its rather small three million tonnes of production, goes ahead then the entire planet is doomed through the impact of climate change supposedly enacted by one small mine, no larger than many of the many others that have worked much closer to the actual bay. Now apparently, it's not just the bay that's at threat. It's the entire world.

Ian, get a grip.

If this job goes, or if it doesn't, it will make absolutely no difference the to future of the climate of the planet. It's less than a drop in the ocean. China, as just one example is increasing its output every year, year on year by much more than the entire output of the UK. If we as a country closed for business tomorrow then everything globally would be back as it was within a couple of months, except everyone in the UK, including Ian would be destitute. To those naive enough to believe that if we 'set an example' the world will follow, just look at how well that 'example' has worked on global human rights since 1945. Nobody in the world gives a stuff as to how the UK goes about its business and it would be incredibly patronising to assume otherwise. Nobody is looking to us as an example.

The site will however mean a great deal of difference to the honest local working men who want to pay their mortgages and look after their families by working at proper jobs which produce, not consume, real wealth without people who have less than no idea about the realities of the industry they work in advocating that they should be refused the jobs in which they are skilled.

There is no merit in wishing people on the dole because of ill-informed dogma. Quite the opposite.
 
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May I just direct everyone to the original post on this thread, which seemed to suggest that if Highthorn was to be approved it would destroy Druridge Bay, an absolute nonsense in itself, seeing as how most of the hinterland of Druridge Bay has already been mined continuously between the 1950s and most recently four or so years ago with Steadsburn site, yet it somehow has survived.

Since then, the site has been approved for working by the County Council, but for reasons that appear to have been political it has been called in for a public inquiry that will involve both the taxpayer and the developer expense running into probably six figures each, all of which will find its way into the pockets of lawyers and barristers. After this public inquiry, which will no doubt find that the site was approved correctly under current planning law, the site will proceed.

However, for those who see this as a victory, bear in mind that but for this political interference the site would have started a year, maybe two earlier than it will. More importantly it will end a year, maybe two later than it would, meaning that any environmental improvements will be delivered that much later. So much for 'caring for the environment'. For those who are worried about improvements promised not being delivered, how precisely to they think that getting the developer committed to hundreds of thousands of pounds of legal costs will make his spending of money on environmental improvements any easier?

Secondly, away from the OP, which threatened the destruction of Druridge Bay (which as has been shown will not be affected, since the site is not actually on Druridge Bay) we have moved on to the ludicrous suggestion that if this site, with its rather small three million tonnes of production, goes ahead then the entire planet is doomed through the impact of climate change supposedly enacted by one small mine, no larger than many of the many others that have worked much closer to the actual bay. Now apparently, it's not just the bay that's at threat. It's the entire world.

Ian, get a grip.

If this job goes, or if it doesn't, it will make absolutely no difference the to future of the climate of the planet. It's less than a drop in the ocean. China, as just one example is increasing its output every year, year on year by much more than the entire output of the UK. If we as a country closed for business tomorrow then everything globally would be back as it was within a couple of months, except everyone in the UK, including Ian would be destitute. To those naive enough to believe that if we 'set an example' the world will follow, just look at how well that 'example' has worked on global human rights since 1945. Nobody in the world gives a stuff as to how the UK goes about its business and it would be incredibly patronising to assume otherwise. Nobody is looking to us as an example.

The site will however mean a great deal of difference to the honest local working men who want to pay their mortgages and look after their families by working at proper jobs which produce, not consume, real wealth without people who have less than no idea about the realities of the industry they work in advocating that they should be refused the jobs in which they are skilled.

There is no merit in wishing people on the dole because of ill-informed dogma. Quite the opposite.

Agree with pretty much all of that. It is ridiculous to suggest this mine will any way damage the ecosystem around Druridge Bay - quite the opposite.

The use of fossil fuels is undeniably a contributor to climate change however as has been pointed out we cannot "turn off" our dependency on it overnight and in the grand scheme of things this development is fairly insignificant.

It will also preserve jobs and investment in the region which is sorely needed.

The only possible reasonable objection to this site is those who will be affected by noise and traffic and while I sympathise to a degree this does not mean the project shouldn't go ahead.
 
Again Mr. Wobbler has brought a modicum of reason, balance and perspective to this discussion, and I for one think the proposal should be seen in context with his valid comments.

As to man-made climate change - you can point to any number of internet links that 'clearly demonstrate' anything you like - the existence of angels, that Noah really did load all the fauna of the world onto a boat (A US university site!), the healing power of one part per billion of x in water etc etc. I had a couple of years ago the real privilege to work with the British Antarctic survey and the University of Cambridge. I was able to talk with those researching and gathering the data upon which the statement I made above is based. It is true that the Earth has been hotter (and cooler) than now, but not while man was around, and the sea level was much much higher. So not really relevant. The relevant period is covered by the Antarctic ice cores that trap the existing air pockets as the snow falls (it never melts in Antarctica).

I can only repeat that the future IS dodgy, but the science is not. Put some hours in, do the research yourself, and you'll come to the same conclusion. Not journalism, but science.

What we do about it is politics, and that's where it gets really difficult....
 
Can folks please stop going off topic. Get on you silly soap box about the myth of climate change in another thread. Keep this one about BIRDS in druridge bay. WHich is the only important issue here.
 
Hmm, ok, but I would just point out it was the OP who introduced the topic into the discussion.
Also I have detailed the scientific basis upon which I think it is a fact, perhaps you might do the same to justify your statement that it is a myth ..... just so we can assess your reasoning powers on the Druridge Bay issue, and factor them accordingly.
 
Although I don't fully object to the project as long as all of the necessary environmental impacts are mitigated I do wonder about the wisdom of the project as a whole as we as a country intend to stop producing energy via coal burning by 2025, which is not that far into the future. I do think as a country we will move away from coal before 2025 as the energy producers stop investing in the power stations and close them down or convert them to using biomass. So although it will create local jobs etc they wont be very long term, we as a country should really be accepting that mining either deep pit or open cast is a thing of the past and consign it to the history books (and this come from someone who lives in an area that had many pits).

Tim.
 
Public inquiry kicks off on 31/5 at the Falcons' ground in Kingston Park if anyone is interested.

Tempting to get in a supply of popcorn and go to watch...
 
Some of us had already worked this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en955azVwCM

dont get too excited about climate change! its all a political agenda.

If you have established your views on AGW based on what you see and hear on YouTube and the like then so be it.

You might also try a bit of empirical scientific research of your own - if so I think you'll find a different conclusion will appear on what is happening and why. This I contend is close enough to established fact to not be worth debating further. What we then do about it (if anything) I agree is more difficult, contentious, with 'winners' and 'losers', and hence political.

You can find videos and websites 'demonstrating scientifically' that the Earth is ~6,000 years old, dinosaurs lived with early humans, Noah really did build an ark, pigs can fly and Elvis is alive and well. A little more effort and enquiry is needed these days before drawing significant conclusions I believe.

Hey ho.
 
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