Birding: Socially Acceptable in your country? (1 Viewer)

Sancho · Mar 31, 2006

I still can't understand why declaring an interest in birdwatching here is still about as socially acceptable as farting at a funeral. Consider: if you are a single male, how do you think an interest in birdwatching will affect your rating among unattached females? Fairly negatively, I would imagine. Whereas an interest in football is perfectly acceptable, even though attached women often bemoan their male partners' footie obsession and the time spent on related activities. Luckily, my wife accepts (and even sometimes shares, now..) my birding. But she didn't know I was a birder when she married me. (Neither did I, I'd lapsed from it shortly after puberty, a bit like Catholicism....).

Now that I'm back on the bird-wagon, I'm also lucky to work among a staff of eighteen, six of whom are birders (and we're working on the rest....). So in my family and work life, I'm comfortable about having 'come out' with my ornithological leanings. But really, among non-birding friends, my interest is treated as, at best, an oddness, and at worst, a perversion. What's that all about? Are you a social outcast because of your birding? Do people mention train-spotting and anoraks when they realise the awful truth about your interest in birds?

Crumper · Apr 1, 2006

Sancho said:
I still can't understand why declaring an interest in birdwatching here is still about as socially acceptable as farting at a funeral. Consider: if you are a single male, how do you think an interest in birdwatching will affect your rating among unattached females? Fairly negatively, I would imagine. Whereas an interest in football is perfectly acceptable, even though attached women often bemoan their male partners' footie obsession and the time spent on related activities. Luckily, my wife accepts (and even sometimes shares, now..) my birding. But she didn't know I was a birder when she married me. (Neither did I, I'd lapsed from it shortly after puberty, a bit like Catholicism....). Now that I'm back on the bird-wagon, I'm also lucky to work among a staff of eighteen, six of whom are birders (and we're working on the rest....). So in my family and work life, I'm comfortable about having 'come out' with my ornithological leanings. But really, among non-birding friends, my interest is treated as, at best, an oddness, and at worst, a perversion. What's that all about? Are you a social outcast because of your birding? Do people mention train-spotting and anoraks when they realise the awful truth about your interest in birds?

Ahh, It's a polynormative world we live in isn't it Sancho. I live in a farming community and bird watchers here are seasonal and carry shotguns. But you go 6 miles up the road and the attitude is a bit different. It's certainly not for everyone and trying to educate those who see it as being a bit queer will always do so until they have a question about a bird they saw.

I've lived in many places between Veracruz, Mex. & Vancouver, Can. and have always been surprised by who the watchers were.

No I'm not a social outcast, but women see me as one. :-C

matt green · Apr 1, 2006

most of my sideways glances come from farmers of all people :-O

I think they find the concept of watching wild animals for pleasure and not shooting them difficult?

sometimes on my walks I might pass a group of kids,I can kinda guess what they're thinking but they tend not to give me any cheek,cos i'm a big chap.

I am however a magnet for the chatty dog walker,often very pleasant retired couples out walking labradors and telling me about the strange brown bird they saw in their garden last week.

one day I think i'm going to dress up in corduroy-anorak-wellies and deerstalker and walk to strumpshaw fen from brundell,that'll really give the kids a giggle 3

matt

jedku · Apr 1, 2006

I think this is a great thread topic! Thanks Sancho. I am not familiar with the birding scene in Britain and Ireland, so you have to forgive my ignorance about social status. I know what Anoraks are, but why they are so socially significant as negative icons against birders over there I don't know. Itmay have to do with social class lines, which are pretty heavily drawn there. Here every fool with a job fancies himself "middle-class" and there is very little of the proud working-class culture one reads about in Britain. There was an anti-"yuppy" craze in the 80's. It seems to have been the dying breath of self-consciously working-class america. Provocative, I know.

Living my life here in the eastern USA as a birder, I have found things socially alot better than many of the reports I read from Britain. First of all in the clubs I have belonged to (Ithaca, NY, Rochester, NY, Wash. D.C., Jax, FL), there have always been a fair share of female birders. The string of girlfriends I had, before I married in my early 30s, were mixed in their toleration of ACTUAL birding. But all seemed to have believed birding was a wholesome pasttime for a man, something that involved a little intellectual work, a little outdoors manliness, and eventually could become a family pasttime with kids. I suppose it could have been different had I been say unemployed, living with my mom and obsessively birding to avoid my problems.

As to actually birding amongst strangers, it depends so much on context. In the preserves and refuges, all the nonbirders seem to approve of my bins and even ask me questions if they see me taking notes. However, just the other day, I was jogging and paused to check out some warblers in a tree. I didn't have any bins so, I was staring intensly at the flitting little bird that didn't quite look like a Yellow-rumped but was just too far away to tell. My jaw dropped slack and I was just staring up there at the tree. I finally decided I just couldnt ID it without bins and resumed normal attention to my environment. I saw a policeman across the street just staring at me from his patrol car. I could literally see in his face he was asking himself either: Is this man escaped from an asylum? or, I am sure this guy is a terrorist, now I just need to figure out why terrorists would be staring at this tree..... I am sure this man could not imagine that I might be looking at a bird. It's out of the realm of consciousness for most people, even those paid to be observant. Warblers are so small I don't think he would even believe there had been a bird in the tree, had he questioned me.

Now with the terror hysteria the Republicans started here, it's hard to be about with bins in neighborhoods or near large institutions with their own security forces. I have been stopped a couple of times.
I remember shortly after 9/11, I was birding the regular spots in Washington DC with friends, where we had birded for years, a real waterfowl preserve, dedicated for that purpose. Just after dawn, we pulled out our scopes and set them up. In the distance beyond the water was the Pentagon. There was some plain-clothes type guy sitting in a parked car at the curb. He was right next to the best scope spot. We startled him awake, I noticed out of the corner of my eye. He pulled out a huge hand-set type of cell phone, made a call. We were birding the ducks, eagles, Osprey, etc. there. 5 minutes later the man pulls away just as a marked patrol car comes in. The officer gets out and questions us, checking our IDs, our equipment, calling our names in against a terror watchlist.... I can understand why they were concerned. But I think it just shows that the authorities were unfamiliar with birders and birding equipment, even in a nature preserve. Security there seems to have dropped off since they realized alot of birders come through there on weekend mornings. We haven't been stopped since.

So, my biggest problem being socially accepted as a birder is the reactions of strangers who can't concieve what I am doing. My family and friends seem to think its a cool hobby, even if they don't have the patience or interest. I think it's not considered to be so much the obsessive hobby of boys here. There is a large conservation, outdoors element to it. Lots of families, women, people interested in the environment, in hiking, in just the pleasure of watching birds, as apposed to strictly listing. Not everyone here is a fanatical "ticker." I think that's a huge difference with the apparent nerdiness of Birding in Britain vs. America. But, as i said i just have a few written clues about birding in Britain and have never been there.

What I have always loved about birding in America is that it is very socially mixed. There are people from all education levels, jobs, ages, and backgrounds, often thrown into the same clubs together.
Marc

Sancho · Apr 1, 2006

jedku said:
Excellent and thought-provoking ideas, Crumper, Matt and Marc. Yes, farmers viewing us with suspicion is common in Ireland, I suppose they interact with nature on a totally different level. And kids taking the piss, yes, but funnily enough I teach in a school, where, as I said, six of us are birders, and the (teenage) kids have gotten used to occasionally seeing us peering into trees or up into the sky, and during last years big influx of waxwings here, a lot of kids started coming to me with questions and reports about them from their neighbourhoods.

Only a rare few confess any real interest in birds, though, and none of them would call themselves 'birdwatchers', too uncool. I've heard stories about guards (i.e. police) taking more than a passing interest in birders activities here, especially during the really bad years of mayhem and murder, but the only guard who ever approached me was just wondering what we were looking out to sea for with scopes, during a White-billed Diver twitch last November. He was bemused, so I offered him a look through my scope, which he took. Perhaps in North America, the cultural symbol of the outdoor man is associated with the pioneering spirit, the backwoods, Grizzly Adams, Jeremiah Johnson, etc., and therefore a man communing with nature via birding represents a rugged, masculine stereotype. Whereas in Britain, a man communing with nature conjures up images of 19th Century Romantic poets, Wordsworth and Keats and Shelley, wishy-washy introspective sensitive types all serious and pallid and out of it on Laudanum, probably heading for an early consumptive death anyway. Not marriageable material. And in Irish culture, a man interacts with nature traditionally as a peasant farmer or a fisherman, he's not out there 'cos he wants to be, but to earn a living, and birds are irrelevant or just bloody pests.

I don't know much about life in the U.S., except for a few summers spent working in New York as a student back in the early eighties. But I do remember that at least in N.Y. there was a fairly class-less liberal culture of letting the individual be whoever the hell he or she wanted to be. It would be interesting to investigate On-Line Dating sites to find out percentages of males who put 'Birdwatching' as one of their interests. I bet in Ireland and the UK, it's zero. There's probably a Ph.D in Sociology to be had by whoever wants to try that out. It won't be me, though, 'cos it would be too hard to explain to my wife why I'd be spending hours each day on dating sites.....

birdpotter · Apr 2, 2006

My biggest problem lately has been the response I give to someone who tells me they birdwatch. I kind of immediately latch on. Hanging on to a person's ankle while they drag me around begging them to let me go birdwatching with them and be their best friend really isn't a positive impression.

This country is so varied in regions and ways of life, it is hard to say what any given non-birder thinks. Living in rural Missouri, the farmers knew most of the birds, had their own names for them, but thought it was weird to waste time watching birds when you could be working or fishing(or hunting, or chasing raccoons with the dogs). Here in upstate NY there seems to be more rural folk who enjoy the birds a bit more. But mostly people just aren't interested or they think it is something for the 'old' to enjoy.

I had a sculpture in a shop that a man was interested in. It was of a crow, now I am not the GREATEST sculptor around, but when he refered to it as a Heron, well, I really had to look twice at him and then the sculpture. It was him.

Rhonda · Apr 4, 2006

Tolerated

Am I the only one asking why you guys aren't interested in women who are interested in birds. We are not all old and frumpy watching birds on our feeders. In Churchill Manitoba where I live and bird we are tolerated by the general public, I feel I should have a sign on my vehicle warning about sudden stops and doors being left wide open. Some real jerks like to drive by really fast and dust us out or flush whatever we may be looking at.
Churchill birding is an life and death proposition at times as I not only have to deal with an astonishing number of blood thirsty insects but also the polar bear. So call my passtime boring, but I will disagree.

Pileated_MO · Apr 4, 2006

Rhonda said:
We are not all old and frumpy watching birds on our feeders.

You're right, we aren't! A lot of us female birders are quite attractive. ;-)

Seriously though, what I've noticed more in this thread and in other conversations, are guys wondering whether their interest in birding decreases their chances with the ladies. I've really not heard a lot of women talk about whether their birding interest would affect how men see them. I'd be interested to know if this is a concern women birders have.
For me, it never seemed to make any difference, but I didn't really get as "serious" about birding as I am now until after I was married. My husband is not a birder himself, but he doesn't mind that I am, and is very encouraging. He's even come with me a couple of times, and does seem interested when I talk about birds.
I have to say that the most negative reaction I've ever gotten from anyone when mentioning my interest in birds was an odd look. For the most part, my co-workers and friends think it's quite neat, and I enjoy being the one people come to for bird ID. When birding, I've not been bothered or questioned..yet.

Click to expand...

Blackstart · Apr 4, 2006

Sancho said:
I still can't understand why declaring an interest in birdwatching here is still about as socially acceptable as farting at a funeral. Consider: if you are a single male, how do you think an interest in birdwatching will affect your rating among unattached females? Fairly negatively, I would imagine. Whereas an interest in football is perfectly acceptable, even though attached women often bemoan their male partners' footie obsession and the time spent on related activities. Luckily, my wife accepts (and even sometimes shares, now..) my birding. But she didn't know I was a birder when she married me. (Neither did I, I'd lapsed from it shortly after puberty, a bit like Catholicism....). Now that I'm back on the bird-wagon, I'm also lucky to work among a staff of eighteen, six of whom are birders (and we're working on the rest....). So in my family and work life, I'm comfortable about having 'come out' with my ornithological leanings. But really, among non-birding friends, my interest is treated as, at best, an oddness, and at worst, a perversion. What's that all about? Are you a social outcast because of your birding? Do people mention train-spotting and anoraks when they realise the awful truth about your interest in birds?

Hi Sancho,

I've never cared much about whether my birding, or nature study in general, was socially acceptable or not, and I was a social outcast long before I ever became a birder. If you enjoy it and it moves you somehow, and you're not harming anyone or anything in the process, what difference does it make what someone else thinks about it?

A recent survey in the UK reported that British men most wanted to be like David Beckham. Good grief! Give me a middle-age paunch and a smart wife any day over the ability to kick a ball (while subsequently failing to do kindergarten math) and a lifetime with Stupid Spice.

The above having been said, I can sometimes see where the nerd label can be applied in birdwatching. Ever read some of these large white-headed gull ID threads, for example? It doesn't get any nerdier than that. Going to a dump to look for something a little lighter or darker grey than the rest? Definitely not going to make you a hit with the ladies, and your friends will think it's strange - because it is!

I don't know if birding is socially acceptable here in the Czech Republic, having not really paid attention, but farting at a funeral is on the borderline, so there's probably hope here for those who care about such matters.

Adam

Andy Bright · Apr 4, 2006

Pileated_MO said:
are guys wondering whether their interest in birding decreases their chances with the ladies.

I don't tell them until it's too late

I think there's been a shift in attitudes in the U.K. over the last decade, with enviromentalism being far more mainstream. A main pastime involved in nature impresses far more people than it used to.

Even a slight name change from birdwatching to birding has seemed to help.

Jos Stratford · Apr 4, 2006

Out here, where birding is very much an alien concept, virtually everybody I meet is genuinely interested in me being a birder (or they are very polite actors). Mind you, I think it is seen as something as 'British eccentric doing his British eccentric thing'

In fact, the recurring question I get, time after time, is not why do I go birding, but why have I stayed so long in Lithuania - birding is okay, but living here is deemed strange :'D (Lithuania has the highest net emigration in Europe)

shandyjack · Apr 4, 2006

Hello All

Interesting post, although I'm sorry to hear that you get that sort of reception Sancho. It's impressive that a third of your colleagues enjoying birding though, any jobs going?!!

I'm youngish (29) and I don't broadcast that I'm into birding to friends. However, when I am out and about with company and point out something feathery of interest, they've always shown a lot of interest. It's got to the point where friends that do know about my birding & wildlife walks ask to come along. My biggest problem, which I shouldn't complain about, is sharing binoculars. It's got to the point where I'm buying a 2nd pair so I can lend 'em out and keep hold of mine.

I totally agree with, and think that some of this interest shown is attributable Andys point about a growing -and much needed- environmental awareness within England.

Does birding decrease your chances with the ladies? No Way!! It's far more girls that are asking to trapse along!!

Best to All

Shandyjack

jurek · Apr 4, 2006

This topic pops up regularily. Mostly if you are self-apologethic to be a birder, people will not like it. If you are self confident, people will be interested.

HH75 · Apr 4, 2006

Hi there,
Down here in the People's Republic of Cork, birding is taken none too kindly by El Presidente: we still shudder when we recall the great 'Lock-up of 2001', where most active birders were interned for six months and regularly tortured with electrodes. Accordingly, we communicate in secret, and twitch birds only under cover of darkness by torchlight.
Seriously, I feel a deep shame when I have to carry my bins somewhere public, like when I found five Alpine Swifts over Cork city centre 4 years ago, though most people are too busy to stop and ask what the f**k you're doing. More risky is birding somewhere a bit quieter, but still popular with the general public: oh, how many times I have been quizzed by little scamps who I wouldn't trust with a look through my scope.
Harry

Farnboro John · Apr 4, 2006

Now everyone knows what a twitcher is, the automatic assumption is that if you bird you are one: I don't mind because I am. There is still this sideways look thing but whenever someone wants to know what they saw intheir garden/along the motorway/on holiday abroad guess whose office they end up in?

Perversely I seem to be held up as some kind of office mascot becasue of my "eccentricity" - I don't have to tell my mad twitch stories about dashing out after Belted K/Elegant Tern/insert major rarity here any more becasue my colleagues tell them for me!

There are more British women birders around now and a good thing too.

John

Sancho · Apr 4, 2006

Blackstart said:
Hi Sancho,

A recent survey in the UK reported that British men most wanted to be like David Beckham. Good grief! Give me a middle-age paunch and a smart wife any day over the ability to kick a ball (while subsequently failing to do kindergarten math) and a lifetime with Stupid Spice.

Adam

Now that´s interesting... I´ve never understood the football thing, was crap at it as a kid, and wonder if there´s a correlation, at least for males, at being a non-teamsport type, and developing an interest in environmental activities like birding. Women birders here, I think, get less funny looks, it´s somehow not perceived as odd. Women are better at doing their own thing anyway, I think, perhaps social pressures on women are different to those on men. But that´s a whole other forum. And no, I don´t care a hoot what folks think about my birding, the reason I started thinking about this was because a 14 year old kid in the school where I teach admitted openly an interest in birding (when the kids saw me at break-time peering into a tree), and the response of his mates was general hilarity. So teachers birding is ok, but peers birding is cause for ridicule. Mind you, teenagers do home in on any difference to reinforce group conformity. And yet a lot of them would be concerned about environmental matters or 3rd world exploitation or globalisation or whatever. Strangely enough, today I was peering into a (different) tree after school to try and find a singing blackcap, and a different kid came over and, having better eyesight, picked it out for me. And he isn´t a birder. Thanks for your observations on this, folks, I find it very interesting, especially the cross-cultural comparisons. Sorry if it´s been done before. Éanna

Atricapilla · Apr 4, 2006

"Out here, where birding is very much an alien concept, virtually everybody I meet is genuinely interested in me being a birder (or they are very polite actors). Mind you, I think it is seen as something as 'British eccentric doing his British eccentric thing'

"

Yes Jos I think you are right,all the farmers are very friendly and good for a cup of tea when passing but they do seem to scratch thier heads a bit when they see all the gear we carry for miles over their land.

Islandergirl · Apr 4, 2006

Hi Sancho,
I entirely agree with you about people thinking bird watching is strange. Imagine what people think if your not only a bird watcher, photographer and a woman. Personally i think its quite funny the strange looks i get when I'm out in the countryside with binoculars in one hand camera round neck and spotting book in the other.On the positive side I've found as a new birder that experienced birders are more than happy to share their knowledge with a beginer. although I did upset one when he proudly showed me a Snipe that was very well camoflaged and I exclaimed "isn't it pretty". He said pretty wasn't in the bird watching vocabulary.I think its a great interest and meeting friendly intelligent people is a bonus. Who cares what anyone else thinks. o

joannec · Apr 4, 2006

Good on you, Islandergirl! You are not alone!

kingfisher · Apr 4, 2006

Having had a healthy interest in birds and wildlife since my school days which was many many years ago now, my friends did think it was odd, I was Captain of our footy team, and if we had a weekend game, I would dash away afterwards to go birding, as you can imagine they ribbed me constantly, but as the years went by my attitude changed, I know longer I could not give a 'Hoot' what others think of my healthy interest in Birds and their enviroment. I just hate the petty attitude of some birders you meet along the way, birds are to be enjoyed and shared with good friends, long may this continue.

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