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RSPB allows "wildfowling" (1 Viewer)

I think what we can all be thankful for is that this wasn't our decision to make, and similarly we can all agree that in a perfect world wildfowling would never take place on this reserve. It is hardly as if any of us are pro-shooting.

Idealism is a wonderful thing, but pragmatism gets results. If the wardens believe that banning the wildfowlers would cause an increase in illegal shooting and disturbance, and in the costs incurred to the charity, I don't really understand what progress the idealist position (i.e. prohibition) would provide for birds.
Under scrutiny, it is at best an admirable moral posture.


(And re: the Ruddy Duck cull. If they'd have been threatening our own Ospreys there wouldn't have been half the uproar. But a rare duck in Spain, that's hardly a beauty and few of us will ever see in the flesh, that was always going to be a tough one to explain to the British public.)
 
rozinante said:
I would prefer to think that the goals of animal rights and conservation are not mutualy exclusive as you suggest.
Click to expand...

Hi rozinante,

Unfortunately there's a fairly large section of the animal rights movement who wouldn't agree with you. Anyone who's posted on
uk.rec.birdwatching in the past will be familiar with Angus Macmillan and his friends:

http://www.con-servation.org.uk/

Some years ago I used to post on an animal rights forum (Labour Animal Welfare - now defunct). Have to say, I have never met such a bunch of misinformed characters in my life - their knowledge of the wildlife they fought so hard to protect was lamentable.

Jonathan
 
saluki said:
Hi rozinante,

Unfortunately there's a fairly large section of the animal rights movement who wouldn't agree with you. Anyone who's posted on
uk.rec.birdwatching in the past will be familiar with Angus Macmillan and his friends:

http://www.con-servation.org.uk/

Some years ago I used to post on an animal rights forum (Labour Animal Welfare - now defunct). Have to say, I have never met such a bunch of misinformed characters in my life - their knowledge of the wildlife they fought so hard to protect was lamentable.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

Hello again Jonathon

What exactly has that got to do with this thread? (or me for that matter)

You are falling for the propoganda of the posters who sought (and it would appear, succeded) to discredit my opinions by repeatedly and unjustly associating them with the worst aspects of animal rights activism.

If discussion of the concept, practicalities, and consequences of destroying life to save life is deemed too be to extream or uncomfortable, I don't realy see how this topic can be discussed at all.

Lets all go and count some feathers.

;)
 
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If the wardens believe that banning the wildfowlers would cause an increase in illegal shooting and disturbance, and in the costs incurred to the charity, I don't really understand what progress the idealist position (i.e. prohibition) would provide for birds.
Click to expand...


I agree - if shooting is going to happen it is going to happen and management is a damn sight safer than confrontation.

I recall an incident at the Gwent Levels Wetland Reserves a few years ago where wildfowlers were challenged and responded by brandishing their firearms at the birders who confronted them.

Birds have predators - wildfowl have predators armed with shotguns - unless the Government bans the "sport" of wildfowling then I think the RSPB have taken the most pragmatic approach.
 
Classic thread that shows just how far some people are removed from real life sometimes.

"I dont like it so ban it" being the attitude. If anyone is as bothered about bird welfare as they seem then follow Hugh Fearnely-Whittingstalls advice and stop buying mass produced broiler house chickens. Or is that less of an issue as they're a stock bird.

Wildfowlers shoot ducks (sometimes). Wildfowlers eat what they have shot. What is the difference to eating a chicken? except that that bird has lived free (and organic) and has been killed by the person who is going to eat it (ok they might pass some to friends). Our local wildfowling clubs limit how many times they can shoot, how many cartridges they can take and how many birds they can shoot. They also have an area as large as what they shoot that is managed entirely as a no shooting area for conservation. Yes, I have been out wildfowling, I have a relative who is a wildfowler, and he shot sweet FA. Its not uncommon. Its not like driven pheasant.

I have no problem with shooting things for food. I cant have otherwise I would be a hypocrite as I love a nice steak.

If you are a commited vegetarian/vegan/fruitarian or other non-meateater then fine. I respect your views, please respect mine. If you are a meat eater think carefully before criticizing someone who kills animals for food.

The RSPB do a sterling job protecting habitats and species and should not be slated for allowing a sustainable 'harvest' (yes thats what it is) in a controlled manner that will ultimately benefit species on their reserves. The point about differences in animal rights and nature conservation has been well made, and I would suggest that American Mink have done more damage to some aquatic species (Water Vole in particular) than any controlled wildfowling will ever do to the populations of wildfowl in this country.

There are a number of things that I find unsavoury in this world - can we please ban melted cheese. It revolts me.
 
rozinante said:
John Cantelo said:
Hello John

I am suprised (and frankly dissapointed) that you choose to attempt to dismiss my point that respect for animal rights is fundemental for any real long term conservation by associating the words animal rights with terrorism. The words still have a validity beyond the activities of the ALF and I think it should be obvious in which sense I used the words.

You might wish to clarify but from what you said it apears that you dismiss the concept of animal rights because of the irrisponsible actions of those who released the mink.

The pragmatists case might indeed be the stronger one. I don't know myself but due to my own reluctance to use violence as a solution to any problem I would require some serious reassurance. Unfortunatly for various reasons, many people would prefer that this be handed down as if imutably carved in stone and dismiss any who might question the divine wisdom as heretics. Those of us not blessed with either blind faith or letters after our names are therefore denied the oppertunity to increase our understanding of the situation.

I realise that the majority of people on this board as in society at large have few qualms about killing for any number of reasons. Its not encouraging to realise that once the concept of gratuitous killing is accepted how subtly the parameters can be streached.

I am baffled by the over reaction regarding the views of someone so obviously out of touch with reality. (where did I put that Das Ich und das Es :)
Click to expand...

I'm a bit puzzled by your reaction, Rozinante, since I don't think I was in any way equating your views with terrorism as you seem to suggest. If I inadvertantly did so then, naturally, I apologise. Nor was it my intention to wholly dismiss the issue of animal rights. My point was simply that some people with a narrowly animals rights agenda may take actions that are inimicable with conservation. I did not mean to imply - in fact I still think didn't do so - that such actions defined the animal rights movement. Perhaps another example would illustrate my point better. In the USA there's a systematic programme of trapping and killing cowbirds as they're threat to the continuing existence of Kitland's Warbler. Some people are adamantly against these measures on the grounds of animal rights and want them stopped. Were this to happen then the warbler would quickly become extinct. I hope that this is a more neutral illustration of the point I was trying to make.

I decline to pass comment on your closing paragraphs beyond noting that such a peevish tone will do little to win people to your own point of view,

John
Click to expand...
 
Craig H said:
Classic thread that shows just how far some people are removed from real life sometimes.

"I dont like it so ban it" being the attitude. If anyone is as bothered about bird welfare as they seem then follow Hugh Fearnely-Whittingstalls advice and stop buying mass produced broiler house chickens. Or is that less of an issue as they're a stock bird.

Wildfowlers shoot ducks (sometimes). Wildfowlers eat what they have shot. What is the difference to eating a chicken? except that that bird has lived free (and organic) and has been killed by the person who is going to eat it (ok they might pass some to friends). Our local wildfowling clubs limit how many times they can shoot, how many cartridges they can take and how many birds they can shoot. They also have an area as large as what they shoot that is managed entirely as a no shooting area for conservation. Yes, I have been out wildfowling, I have a relative who is a wildfowler, and he shot sweet FA. Its not uncommon. Its not like driven pheasant.

I have no problem with shooting things for food. I cant have otherwise I would be a hypocrite as I love a nice steak.

If you are a commited vegetarian/vegan/fruitarian or other non-meateater then fine. I respect your views, please respect mine. If you are a meat eater think carefully before criticizing someone who kills animals for food.

The RSPB do a sterling job protecting habitats and species and should not be slated for allowing a sustainable 'harvest' (yes thats what it is) in a controlled manner that will ultimately benefit species on their reserves. The point about differences in animal rights and nature conservation has been well made, and I would suggest that American Mink have done more damage to some aquatic species (Water Vole in particular) than any controlled wildfowling will ever do to the populations of wildfowl in this country.

There are a number of things that I find unsavoury in this world - can we please ban melted cheese. It revolts me.
Click to expand...


We are in tune! I agree with all of this, even down to the hatred of cooked or melted cheese!
 
Alan Seaton said:
We are in tune! I agree with all of this, even down to the hatred of cooked or melted cheese!
Click to expand...

Oh, I am not sure about cooked because no one can tell me cheese-on-toast/Welsh rarebit is not a really handy meal. As for any good cheese sprinkled into an omelette in the absence of other food as a student stand-by (assuming students have learned to do omelette...LOL), done properly will be way beyond blasting your taste buds with garlic and chilli or some over rich wine sauce. For best results, use a cheese with chives or onions incorporated into the variety. Once you have tried it, you will think differently about fried (self-cooked, of course) breakfasts for a hagnover pick-me-up.

B :):smoke:eek::D

Ian
 
melted cheese is the food of the gods (Ambrosia went out with the ancient greeks). Other than that Craig sums up my views very well.
 
Isurus said:
melted cheese is the food of the gods (Ambrosia went out with the ancient greeks). Other than that Craig sums up my views very well.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely.
And would urge anyone with an aversion to melted cheese to seek professional help immediately before it is too late.
 
Another thread heading for meltdown . . . . Getting quite cheesed off . . . :(

Guys, may I humbly draw your attention to the ' Negativity' and 'Positivity' threads in Ruffled Feathers, where off-thread topics such as this can be happily discussed at length without cheesing anyone off, or causing thread meltdown. . . .

;) ;)

eg http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=104372
 
The press seldom report accurately on matters of birds and wildlife, and without going into too much detail, this is another classic case of poor (biasé) reporting. There is a bigger picture here that people need to see before over-reacting!
 
Can we get back on topic, please?

I specifically came to this thread to further my knowledge of people's cheese preferences, only to find it cluttered up with some drivel about bloody ducks.

Particularly bloody ones, I'd imagine, if somebody has filled them with lead shot.

BTW - strong blue cheese, melted or not, is bloody awful.

Adrian
 
Sorry to have caused a cheesy off topic discussion, but I do feel really strongly about this sort of thing.

There are things going on in this and other countries that have significant negative impacts on species populations and habitats and that get backing of the various authorities. Look at the Scottish Government overturning the decision to protect a SSSI!

Shooting animals will always be contoversial. But when its regulated, and the animals killed are used as food I see no difference to farming, except its the ultimate free range organic. And seeing as most wildfowling is regulated any risk of overshooting and the shooting would be stoppoed.

Even trophy hunting (which I dont particularly care for) has been shown to contribute to species and habitat conservation.

The RSPB, WWT and other nature conservation organisations buy land to protect it from development, and to manage it for the benefit of wildlife. AKA RSPB Vane farm. If the RSPB kept cattle which were sent for slaughter, the profits from which were put back into the reserve, would there be the same outcry. I suspect not.
 
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