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Gull ID, Northern Spain (1 Viewer)

F

fdokykcu

Well-known member
First of all I have to say that I wouldn't dare to give this presumed ID (Larus smithsonianus) based only on my knowledge and with only this photograph. The fact is that there is a long-time (this is its 6th winter here) returning individual of this species at this small harbour (has got even a nickname, "Ondarru"), which has been seen by several experienced gull observers during the same days at the very same spot. I wonder if the one in the middle of the photo is THE bird.

I've based the presumed ID on pink coloured legs, pale mantle, very light eyes and extent of gonyal spot.

Unfortunately I don't have more photos, little after I located it all the gulls in the area flew away. Could it be instead another of the more frequent gulls in the area (YLG & LBBG), or these can be discarded? As far as I know there is no HG adult been reported from there these days.

Taken at Ondarroa harbour, Basque Country, last week
 

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I don't know what means "ondarru", this bird looks like a regular Yellow-legged Gull, if there is any feature against this ID, it can be worth explaining.
 
Gull id.

Hi all,
gull hocus pocus obvious in this very strange posting? Still not sure what this bird was actually identified as in the posting was it AHG, argentatus, or even argenteus?
In the northern Persian Gulf region we found a handful of near to full adult gulls with bright pink legs. These were a different shade of bright pink to our own herring gulls and not to be confused with the grey-flesh colour of most of the wintering gulls in this region.
Looking at Mr. Ondarro he seems to have exactly the same mantle shade and more importantly the same mantle hue as the nearby female YLG's. This seems critical.
YLG is my weak link I have seen lots but still do not feel comfortable with it compared to all the others. Because I have been looking at the gulls continually for the last few months I would not object to be proven wrong. Would just try to look closer in the future.
I would say about this bird you do not even have to be an expert, anybody with even an average experience of the northern herring gulls should be able to discern these subtle differences in mantle colour. If this not the case we are just expecting too much of these photographs?
 
skbirder said:
It's an adult.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Look at... the pink legs, the dull bill, the black spot on the lower mandible, the stains on the face and neck, all this point to a 3/4cy bird, Yellow-legged Gull.

Gulls make surprises indeed, I'm wishing to learn, but this look like thousands of YLG I've seen in Spain and elsewhere.
 
Valéry Schollaert said:
Not quite. Look at... the pink legs, the dull bill, the black spot on the lower mandible, the stains on the face and neck, all this point to a 3/4cy bird, Yellow-legged Gull.
Click to expand...

The discussion is semantic, but were this to be an immature Yellow-legged, it would have to be a 4cy bird - and a YLG of that age would surely have yellow legs.
 
Tib78 said:
According to bill pattern this isn’t Ondarru, compare to those images taken a few ago too: http://juankarandres.blogspot.com/2018/01/gaviota-argentea-americana.html?m=1
Surely not a YLG for the reasons already outlined by others anyway.
Click to expand...

I also wanted to say this yesterday (bill pattern is close but not quite the same). Also, the tarsi look proportionately shorter in Ondarru (in the OP bird they're as long as the nearby YLG*) and leg colour is of a more intense shade of pink (although this could be conceivably due to camera specifications and photoshop use).

*EDIT: I posted this before looking at the photos again today; this feature was clearer to my eyes yesterday than after revisiting the photos now, I admit.
 
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Then it should be a HG? One of the Spanish gull experts (Gabriel Martín, who knows well the AHG bird) also replied me yesterday that for him it was not "Ondarru" i.e. smithsonianus, but a Herring Gull. Or left as Larus sp. with only this photograph?

Tib78 said:
According to bill pattern this isn’t Ondarru, compare to those images taken a few ago too: http://juankarandres.blogspot.com/2018/01/gaviota-argentea-americana.html?m=1
Surely not a YLG for the reasons already outlined by others anyway.
Click to expand...

Anyway thank to everyone for the comments, I know the photos are not the best for this kind of ID (I had no opportunity to take others or to have more time of observation, as explained in the OP) and I've learned a lot from the discussion, which for me is the most important fact.
 
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skbirder said:
The discussion is semantic, but were this to be an immature Yellow-legged, it would have to be a 4cy bird - and a YLG of that age would surely have yellow legs.
Click to expand...

Not really. When I was working for Moroccan Rare Bird Committee (1995 - 2005) we received annually reports for PLENTY of Herring Gulls, while it is very rare down there. All were actually adult-looking YLG (3 - 4, may be 5cy sometimes) having retained their pink legs. It is actually a common case.

I've passed through the comments, I still don't see any significant details excluding YLG on op bird.
 
fdokykcu said:
Then it should be a HG? One of the Spanish gull experts (Gabriel Martín, who knows well the AHG bird) also replied me yesterday that for him it was not "Ondarru" i.e. smithsonianus, but a Herring Gull. Or left as Larus sp. with only this photograph?
Click to expand...

Well, if so many people exclude YLG, although I don't see why, Larus sp seems the best, careful, conclusion indeed.
 
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