South America or Africa? (1 Viewer)

Vectis Birder · Jul 22, 2004

I am hoping to do some travelling next year, and am considering either Africa (sub Sahara - probably Kenya or Tanzania) or South America. Tim Allwood has already suggested Peru to me in another thread, which I will consider. Now I know that South America is the Bird Continent, but I have always wanted to go to Africa.

I will be doing this on a very tight budget, as an office temp (and currently "between assignments") money will be tight as the pay ain't that great. So, I will be looking at the "cheapest" destination, both in terms of cost of living and of getting there and around, but one with the maximum bird potential. South America is looking pretty tempting and will be my most likely destination.

Also, as a lone traveller, and female at that, I will have to consider personal safety too. I have travelled extensively in Europe and Australia, but South America is very much a different prospect.

Also, can anyone suggest any good field guides for the areas I have mentioned above?

Any suggestions and advice will be gratefully received and truly appreciated. Cheers, people.

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

Watcha Faith

South America is mush safer than Africa in general and much more developed too. A trip around Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia including both high Andes, lowland rainforest and mid elevation forests and a bit of seawatching in Peru would be amazing. The scenery is incredible, the people are lovely and it's easy to get around and there are quite a few other tourists around as well.

You could go on to northern Chile and Lauca National Park too.... and even Peru could take you six months on its own - Cusco and the Manu Road is a great trip (I only did two months but could have stayed waaaay longer). Loads of tourists in Cusco and lots of birding nearby. Cheap and with a huge amount of birds and plenty of lessons in bird distribution and biodiversity too!

there is a usuable Peru Guide by James Clements and Noam Chany
there is a great Ecuador guide by Ridgely and Greenfield
Bolivia is covered by Peru guide above and Colombia guide by Steve Hilty (perhaps best ever field guide)

Birds of South America Vols 1 and 2 are fantastic and very good value if you can find them.

Plus volume 8 of Handbook of the Birds of the World has the sub oscine passerines in it (birds that are nearly all only in South America)

Vectis Birder · Jul 22, 2004

Hiya Tim,

I have been doing a little research and it looks as though I shall head for South America when funds allow, hopefully sometime next year. I shall look into flights very carefully as they are obviously going to be the biggest outlay in terms of expense, and I expect they will be logistically awkward as I am not sure if there are direct flights from London to Lima.

So to anyone who has been there, please let me know all about it. Cheers.

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

hiya Faith

you can fly KLM to Lima from Amsterdam direct - just a short hop from a UK airport (Norwich for example) with KLM to Amsterdam, then onwards. much preferable to an American carrier and transferring in Houston, Newark, Miami etc

Vectis Birder · Jul 22, 2004

Cheers Tim. It looks as though some enjoyable research is on the cards for the next few months. Is there a "good" time of year to go? Or is it much the same all year round, Peru being just south of the Equator?

Rhion · Jul 22, 2004

Tim Allwood said:
hiya Faith

you can fly KLM to Lima from Amsterdam direct - just a short hop from a UK airport (Norwich for example) with KLM to Amsterdam, then onwards. much preferable to an American carrier and transferring in Houston, Newark, Miami etc

Or Iberia direct to Lima from Madrid. Travelling from Manchester I got a free hotel, breakfast and transfers in Madrid on the way, since the connection couldn't be done the same day.

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

I forget Iberia, cheers Rhion
I think Varig also go via Madrid but not so frequently

The above routings are also true for Ecuador....although don't leave it as late as i did this year - they book up quickly these days with fewer flights being available

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Hi Faith,
I understand from the above that you've never birded in Latin America. It's really amazing but at the same time can be overwhelming! Peru, Ecuador etc are the countries with the highest diversity and birding and UNDERSTANDING what you see is not easy at all (unless you bird with guides, that's not cheap and you said cheap). My recommendation is:

1- If you just want to see the birds you'll be able to find, enjoy and identify for yourself, any country with a good field guide will be great, but you'll be on your own down there. I mean there will be inevitably LOTS of birds you won't have a chance to be sure what they are. In this case I'd recommend an easier country than Peru, Colombia, Ecuador or Venezuela (all have good field guides). Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama or Chile can be great, have good field guides and are fairly safe to travel for a woman alone. Costa Rica would be my evident choice

, a paradise for anyone visiting the Neotropics for the first time. Not very cheap but affordable, small and easy to travel, and with a combination of habitats, endemics and bird diversity difficult to find in such a small country.

2- If you want to see as many sps. as possible my recommendation would be to get local guides in every area you visit, specially bird guides if possible. Ecuador, Peru or any of the ones I mentioned before will be OK. It won't be very cheap though.

Hope this will help
Saludos
Eduardo

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

Watcha people

Costa Rica would be a good choice too Eduardo - almost chose there for this summer but I left it late and flights were a bit too dear to justify a short holiday.

I think the thing with to Peru is to realise that you can only do certain areas at a time and this really narrows down some of the ID problems. For example, starting off with a week or two around Cusco you'll only have to worry about some of the higher altitude non-forest stuff, most of which is fairly easy. Then move on to a few days at Macchu Pichhu and get into the forest stuff slowly. The Manu road is amazing as you can start right at the top where the diversity is low and move down thru the zones to new sets of birds every few hundred meteres......

the lowlands are a different kettle of fish though! Lots of similar antwrens and antbirds etc.... we were lucky in that my mate worked there and he could ease us into the birds.

You learn quickly when you have to as well Faith! Peru is so amazing - it should be a birder's pilgrimage.....until Colombia becomes safe enough again!

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Tim,
Do you think Peru is safe for a woman travelling alone carrying binos and maybe a scope? I've never been in Peru so I can't express my opinion, someday...

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

Hello there Eduardo

I think Peru is certainly as safe as most places now, UK included! The only dangerous areas are up past Tingo Maria where the coca is traded and the Sendero used to be active but you'd not go up there anyway. The Sendero Luminoso are on the back foot now and way off the beaten track.

I've birded several countries with girlfriends eg spent a long time in Indonesia and we'd often do our own things (not everyone loves birds!) and we've never had any trouble, Peru included. Usual stuff, just be sensible....I wouldn't carry a scope in any of these places though as it just attracts too much attention - nearly always well meaning but not walways what you want!

Actually, in recent years I've heard of more robberies at Braulio Carillo than most places - is that the case now?

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Many people in Costa Rica and Panama speak fairly good american english. I'm not sure about Peru. Maybe Faith speaks spanish and she has no problem travelling alone in Latin A.

Steve · Jul 22, 2004

Faith I have been to both continents countless times, If I was going to recommend somewhere, I would have to say go to India. Drop a line to sumit and get the Gen off him?
mail me when you decide and Ill see what I can do about a cheap ticket.

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Tim Allwood said:
Hello there Eduardo

Actually, in recent years I've heard of more robberies at Braulio Carillo than most places - is that the case now?

I've birded many times Braulio Carrillo and never had a problem. If you bird the trails at the Quebrada Gonzalez station and make short stops at the miradores on the road and the Tapir gardens you'll be fine. I wouldn't recommend leaving your car alone and bird the roadsides, even if you came by bus. The road is noisy and busy with trucks, dangerous, and is also the place were all robberies happened. The thieves see you on the road with your binos, stop, take their guns out, pick all they want from you and move on. Easy target.

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Steve said:
Faith I have been to both continents countless times, If I was going to recommend somewhere, I would have to say go to India. Drop a line to sumit and get the Gen off him?
mail me when you decide and Ill see what I can do about a cheap ticket.

I'd recommend India too, loved it, but the thread was Africa or South America

Vectis Birder · Jul 22, 2004

Thanks for all the info people. Looks like I have a lot of research to do!
The funny thing is, regarding safety is that I have travelled a fair bit, and the only place I have ever been assaulted was here in Southampton! However, everywhere is different, and that is the only thing I would be concerned about - safety. As for Peru, at least these days it looks as though the Sendero Luminoso are a thing of the past, although I daresay there are still some lurking somewhere.

I think Latin America it is, although India is also very tempting - 2006, perhaps?

I shall spend the next twelve months still temping to raise money, and then go next summer I think...

Edward woodwood · Jul 22, 2004

trouble with India is in the summer it's very wet in the best birding spots......and lots of the good wintering stuff obviously wont be there.

Steve · Jul 22, 2004

Best to Go in the Winter then ?

Motmot · Jul 22, 2004

Hi Faith, same happened to me!
In four years in Costa Rica I had no robberies. Only robbed once in Barcelona, Spain in 10 years there. Also cleaned up at a hotel in Nairobi. No problems while in Venezuela, Ecuador, Panama, El Salvador, Mexico or Argentina. It's not that bad, normal precautions usually work.

Vectis Birder · Jul 23, 2004

What is Chile like for birding?

South America or Africa? (1 Viewer)

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