Review of 8x25 Victory Pocket (3 Viewers)

temmie · Jun 5, 2020

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, and I won't create a new topic specially for this, but there is, for me, one major design flaw in the 8x25. The flaw is mostly visible exactly because it is so sharp and the view really 'pops':

Whenever I have them in my pocket or backpack and I take them out, they often are not very sharp. A quick look on the binocular (not through) then reveals that the diopter setting has inadvertently turned. So my main critique is that the diopter wheel is actually too easy to turn. I am even amongst those that need the 'zero' setting, and at that setting, the diopter has something I would call a little click (it's not a click but you feel it naturally settles on that position as the resistance in that zero position is lower). But even at that setting it is easy to inadvertently move the diopter.

The easiest way to solve the issue could be making the diopter wheel a fair bit smaller, and the resistance of the diopter a fair bit harder. Another solution would be a diopter that you need to push out, adjust and click back in (like in the victory FL x32 and x42 series), but I reckon that is a bit harder / more complex to produce or design.

Alexis Powell · Jun 5, 2020

temmie said:
I don't know if it has been mentioned before, and I won't create a new topic specially for this, but there is, for me, one major design flaw in the 8x25. The flaw is mostly visible exactly because it is so sharp and the view really 'pops':

Whenever I have them in my pocket or backpack and I take them out, they often are not very sharp. A quick look on the binocular (not through) then reveals that the diopter setting has inadvertently turned. So my main critique is that the diopter wheel is actually too easy to turn. I am even amongst those that need the 'zero' setting, and at that setting, the diopter has something I would call a little click (it's not a click but you feel it naturally settles on that position as the resistance in that zero position is lower). But even at that setting it is easy to inadvertently move the diopter.

The easiest way to solve the issue could be making the diopter wheel a fair bit smaller, and the resistance of the diopter a fair bit harder. Another solution would be a diopter that you need to push out, adjust and click back in (like in the victory FL x32 and x42 series), but I reckon that is a bit harder / more complex to produce or design.

I am also bothered by this problem from time to time, and I keep meaning to try to dream up a fix. Actually, the thing that I don't like most about the diopter is the detent at the 0 position. Actually, it's not a normal detent, more like a rut. For me, the 0 setting is best, so it's not a huge deal, but adjusting the diopter to just a small amount of + or minus would be difficult because it has a tendency to want to "fall" down into the 0 position on its own. Also, the scale markings are not clear or precise. The diopter should be made to have much more friction and to lack detents, just a clear scale for precise setting.

--AP

eronald · Jun 6, 2020

temmie said:
I don't know if it has been mentioned before, and I won't create a new topic specially for this, but there is, for me, one major design flaw in the 8x25. The flaw is mostly visible exactly because it is so sharp and the view really 'pops':

Whenever I have them in my pocket or backpack and I take them out, they often are not very sharp. A quick look on the binocular (not through) then reveals that the diopter setting has inadvertently turned. So my main critique is that the diopter wheel is actually too easy to turn. I am even amongst those that need the 'zero' setting, and at that setting, the diopter has something I would call a little click (it's not a click but you feel it naturally settles on that position as the resistance in that zero position is lower). But even at that setting it is easy to inadvertently move the diopter.

The easiest way to solve the issue could be making the diopter wheel a fair bit smaller, and the resistance of the diopter a fair bit harder. Another solution would be a diopter that you need to push out, adjust and click back in (like in the victory FL x32 and x42 series), but I reckon that is a bit harder / more complex to produce or design.

Maybe a kindly soul called Lee will forward this request to Zeiss. I believe a decent diopter should be settable by eye, with a mark, and never move by accident, but any change would be an improvement in the case of the Pocket. The diopter on my Leica UV is wonderful, except it doesn't go far enough in differential so I can use them without glasses. In the case of the Pocket the functionality is there, but not the ergonomics, as you state-

That tiny diopter wheel is not really adapted to my hands, which my Maker encumbered with a multitude of mostly useless large and clumsy fingers. On the other hand this nice Japanese instrument does well with my narrow IPD.

A lot of people have minor issues with the ergos of the Pocket, which has the bad fortune of having the abilities of a larger glass, and therefore creating exaggerated expectations. Myself, I just wish they would sell me one that would tire my eyes less and have less of a green tint. How that would be made possible I don't know.

I have a feeling a lot of the minor ergo issues we see here would not be an issue in the country where this nice instrument was sourced. I don't think it's an accident that the instruments *we* consider "alphas" tend to be made in the place where the engineers have big fat hands. Our wives may think these same instruments we love are as primitive as stone axes.

Edmund

Kevin Conville · Jun 6, 2020

temmie said:
I don't know if it has been mentioned before, and I won't create a new topic specially for this, but there is, for me, one major design flaw in the 8x25. The flaw is mostly visible exactly because it is so sharp and the view really 'pops':

Whenever I have them in my pocket or backpack and I take them out, they often are not very sharp. A quick look on the binocular (not through) then reveals that the diopter setting has inadvertently turned. So my main critique is that the diopter wheel is actually too easy to turn. I am even amongst those that need the 'zero' setting, and at that setting, the diopter has something I would call a little click (it's not a click but you feel it naturally settles on that position as the resistance in that zero position is lower). But even at that setting it is easy to inadvertently move the diopter.

The easiest way to solve the issue could be making the diopter wheel a fair bit smaller, and the resistance of the diopter a fair bit harder. Another solution would be a diopter that you need to push out, adjust and click back in (like in the victory FL x32 and x42 series), but I reckon that is a bit harder / more complex to produce or design.

Alexis Powell said:
I am also bothered by this problem from time to time, and I keep meaning to try to dream up a fix. Actually, the thing that I don't like most about the diopter is the detent at the 0 position. Actually, it's not a normal detent, more like a rut. For me, the 0 setting is best, so it's not a huge deal, but adjusting the diopter to just a small amount of + or minus would be difficult because it has a tendency to want to "fall" down into the 0 position on its own. Also, the scale markings are not clear or precise. The diopter should be made to have much more friction and to lack detents, just a clear scale for precise setting.

--AP

With contact lenses my setting is 0 with the 8x25 Victory. My detent is just substantial enough where is hasn't inadvertantly moved. BUT, Zeiss' design here sucks, for the reasons Alexis describes. When I reviewed this bin I stated that had the diopter position not been ideal for me set at the 0 position, I would not have kept these bins.
I'm a little surprised this subject hasn't come up frequently about this bin. A major design flaw IMO on an otherwise great little binocular.

temmie · Jun 6, 2020

Well, my setting is also 0, but even with the detent it sometimes moves. I wish I could lock it in a sustainable / elegant way.

Anyway, I don't want to take away too much from the praise, I use it a lot while cycling around as it's around my neck but I don't feel it hanging so it's just great for leisurely rides and occasional birdwatching, often in combination with my telelens in my backpack.

When I know I will have to work to see a certain bird and I am not aiming at photographing birds but first of all finding birds, I still take my 7x42 T*FL.

I hope this message will find its way at Zeiss so they can keep improving future versions.

lmans66 · Jun 6, 2020

A fine binocular.....I was blown away by the sharpness and ease of focus. I didn't have an issue with the diopter but then again, it wasn't in a backpack or pocket, just around my neck. Such an easy fix. The best bin I have seen for hiking and casual walking etc but just too small to call an every-day birder

wdc · Jun 6, 2020

I've had the same problem with the diopter sometimes moving off of zero about half a click as well when I pull it out of my shirt pocket. I was equally puzzled. Now I check it if things don't seem sharp. If its just hanging around your neck this isn't a problem. The binocular is small enough that it is tempting to regularly stuff it away, and therein lies the cause. Perhaps field tests with a prototype did not reveal this pattern of use, or the concern wasn't great enough....

"Sir, I've noticed the diopter on the prototype tends to slip when I remove it quickly from my pocket."

"That's because you are removing it incorrectly!"

Its clearly a known issue on this forum, and in that regard can at least be compensated for by the user. I suppose it also helps contribute to the 'fiddly' nature of these small devices.

-Bill

chill6x6 · Jun 6, 2020

You know....I have SOME binoculars I don't even bother to adjust...I just leave at "0." Either they are "fiddly" to adjust OR have a tendency to move inadvertently. I don't need THAT much adjustment anyway... A least at "0" I can always tell at a glance where it's set.

denco@comcast.n · Jun 6, 2020

chill6x6 said:
You know....I have SOME binoculars I don't even bother to adjust...I just leave at "0." Either they are "fiddly" to adjust OR have a tendency to move inadvertently. I don't need THAT much adjustment anyway... A least at "0" I can always tell at a glance where it's set.

I always leave my diopter's set at 0 also for the same reason's you do Chuck. My eyes are pretty much the same anyway.

eronald · Jun 7, 2020

This fiddly little thing has become everyday carry (EDC) with me - I just dump it caseless into my painting bag as accessibility is THE important feature of a binocular for me.

Pocket 25:
PRO: Always in my bag, so light I don't even it.
PRO: Very sharp, actually sharp, you can see what you're looking at sharp. Oh and by the way it's sharp.
PRO: Tough enough not to need babying, decently recessed lenses.

Con: Not so pleasant to use on overcast days and towards end of day.
Con: Tiring to use after more than a few seconds.
Con: Fiddly, generally. Bad dioptre design.

I am not a birder but I like observing birds if they happen to be there.. Today I used the Pocket to look at a Heron perched in a tree, from 50 yards away, in a city park. I also found something else about duck-size sitting in a tree, well in within the leaves, but as I could only see the bottom of the bird and the tail feathers I don't know what it was. It might have been a duck as it didn't seem perched but actually poised with its body on a branch V.

I'm sure the good people at Zeiss have a little box of index cards where "Diopter" is now noted, and when the next binocular is released they will do something. However, frankly, the last time I tried an SF I didn't like the diopter either, and that is a superb and expensive instrument. Please, Zeiss, DIOPTERS ARE AS IMPORTANT AS FOCUS KNOBS AND SHOULD BE DESIGNED AND ENGINEERED WITH CARE.

Edmund

cottonbase · Jun 7, 2020

cottonbase said:
For anyone looking for a suitable case, I can recommend the Gem Kangaroo Grandad as a perfect fit for the VP, whether fully folded or almost fully open.

Can be used with a shoulder strap or belt and also has a small zippable pouch.

http://www.gem-bags.com/gem-kangaroo-grandad_p22533301.htm

FWIW the web site quoted doesn't exist anymore, and I can't edit the original post for some reason. The company appears to have moved to Amazon (and an employee replied to me today, so they're still trading). Pictures containing the VP are on the original post.

The new link is here. £11.44 + £5 delivery.

Regardless, the case is designed to fit Nikon Coolpix P7100 or P7700 cameras as they are virtually the same dimensions as the VP, should someone want to look for an alternative.

BTW this case holds the binocular vertically so there is much less chance of the dioptre moving accidentally. I have never experienced the issue in 12 months use.

mwhogue · Jun 7, 2020

cottonbase said:
FWIW the web site quoted doesn't exist anymore, and I can't edit the original post for some reason. The company appears to have moved to Amazon (and an employee replied to me today, so they're still trading). Pictures containing the VP are on the original post.

The new link is here. £11.44 + £5 delivery.

Regardless, the case is designed to fit Nikon Coolpix P7100 or P7700 cameras as they are virtually the same dimensions as the VP, should someone want to look for an alternative.

BTW this case holds the binocular vertically so there is much less chance of the dioptre moving accidentally. I have never experienced the issue in 12 months use.

I bought this case for the Victory Pocket 8x25 back when you first recommended it, thanks. It's a Great case for compact bins with lots of nicely done small useful features. Like you I've had no diopter issues since using this case. Good to know it is still available.

Mike

tenex · Jun 7, 2020

eronald said:
A lot of people have minor issues with the ergos of the Pocket, which has the bad fortune of having the abilities of a larger glass, and therefore creating exaggerated expectations.

Very well put. If I had kept the VP I tried, I would have wound up carrying it a fair bit instead of my 32mm, and then regretting that (on the basis of ergos and FOV). Much the same as with a compact camera years ago.

wdc said:
"Sir, I've noticed the diopter on the prototype tends to slip when I remove it quickly from my pocket."

"That's because you are removing it incorrectly!"

Having left the diopter at 0 myself, I do wonder just how the slippage happens. I would have thought the knob small enough to avoid such trouble.

eronald · Jun 8, 2020

tenex said:
Very well put. If I had kept the VP I tried, I would have wound up carrying it a fair bit instead of my 32mm, and then regretting that (on the basis of ergos and FOV). Much the same as with a compact camera years ago.

Some very nice compacts were made starting with the Minox and Rollei 35

Zeiss could provide the Pocket with a decent nonbulky case, light thread strap and/or wriststrap, give them a proper diopter, better eyecups, fix the green tint, baffle them even better against glare (they’re not bad) etc etc. and maybe even up the lenses to 28mm and kill just about the whole rest of their product line

But as these instruments are made in Japan, that would mean a lot of discussion with a remote supplier, and that would chew up engineer and negotiation time like crazy: Rule 1 of subcontracting is GET A STANDARD PIZZA AND ADD JUST ONE OR TWO TOPPINGS.

I know you guys think the Pocket is good and expensive; I think it’s a high quality loss leader, held back to provide a market for the bigger glasses, and priced low to discourage competitors from flooding the market with high-end Kamakura rebrands.

Edmund

Troubador · Jun 8, 2020

I've had my Victory Pockets for 2 years and the dioptre adjustment hasn't moved at all during that time.

Lee

eronald · Jun 9, 2020

Troubador said:
I've had my Victory Pockets for 2 years and the dioptre adjustment hasn't moved at all during that time.

Lee

I pulled my Pocket out of my bag a few times when viewing the Gray Heron etc last week and the dioptre had moved considerably -to the opposite side of my adjust- every time. How it does it I don't know. I think there must still be one or two birdwatchers on this forum apart from equipment geeks like me, and they will know how frustrating it is to dig out a binocular, point it at a bird that is doing its business, make focus and get - a fuzzy view, desperately angle around the back of the thing, close one eye to get the left focus etc.

One thing I've noticed is that the Pocket is not forgiving of focus, it needs very precise adjustment for me, at the start of every use, although afterwards for observation I usually don't need to refocus at all anymore. My Ultravids are the opposite, they just need an in-the-park focus nudge at the outset, but then constantly need refocus as I move from object to object.

In summary, different reports on ergonomics by different people - a binocular with personality.

BTW, I own a folding Brompton bike which I've taken with me to various countries on train trips, business and pleasure. It doesn't roll especially well, the gears are a fussy joke, it's a bit too heavy when I lift it into a train or up platform stairs, it barely stows in an overhead rack,it's a pain to push folded, and there's really no way one can secure it, the seat is mediocre, and I can't be bothered to ride it for more than two miles or so. But every time I want to replace it with something better it turns out the Brompton ticks all the box including portability just about ok while the BetterBike totally misses out on some while doing other things well. I tried a Vello Bike, an Austrian folding design with an Alfine gear set last week, riding it was like using a Zeiss SF

but when folded it's a kludge.

Just like the Pocket. I complain a bit but I just can't find a better EDC (Everyday Carry) binocular.

Edmund

CSG · Jun 10, 2020

I've had my 10x25 version of these for at least 10 years now and the only complaint I've ever had was that if I extend the eyecups all the way out, my eyelashes get tickled so even if I'm not wearing sunglasses, I have to retract them to most of the way in. No problems with the diopter on my pair (set at 0).

I should add that I never bought these for birding but for SAR work when I was with our local SAR unit.

Troubador · Jun 10, 2020

eronald said:
I think there must still be one or two birdwatchers on this forum apart from equipment geeks like me, and they will know how frustrating it is to dig out a binocular, point it at a bird that is doing its business, make focus and get - a fuzzy view, desperately angle around the back of the thing, close one eye to get the left focus etc.

Edmund

Dear Edmund, please allow me to say, without any hint of criticism especially when discussing a bino called Victory Pocket which invites you to tuck them away into a pocket somewhere, that a birdwatcher would not have his binos tucked away inside a bag if he was out birding.

Lee

paddy7 · Jun 10, 2020

Just for balance - i've had a Pocket for just short of two years, and set the dioptre up initially, and there it has stayed.
Whether this is a QC issue i don't know, but mine requires two fingers to turn it at all.
I can see how - with the size - it would be easy for a finger to drift over the dioptre and move it (if loose), but as for moving when not in the hand - that sounds odd to me.

eronald · Jun 11, 2020

Troubador said:
Dear Edmund, please allow me to say, without any hint of criticism especially when discussing a bino called Victory Pocket which invites you to tuck them away into a pocket somewhere, that a birdwatcher would not have his binos tucked away inside a bag if he was out birding.

Lee

Lee,

You are so right. There is a big difference between a birdwatcher and a birdnoticer. The latter it goes without saying is an uncultured low opportunist, the sort that sadly breed when city folk are allowed country furloughs.

Edmund

Review of 8x25 Victory Pocket (3 Viewers)

Well-known member

Natural history enthusiast

Well-known member

yardbirder

Well-known member

Out Birding....

Well-known member

Registered User

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well Known Member

reality-based

Well-known member

Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread