Difference between 200- and 800-€ binoculars (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I am thinking of buying new binoculars because I am getting more and more interested in birdwatching.
At the moment, I own some Nikon Prostaff 7s and I'd like to know wether more expensive binoculars, say 800€, would help me to indentify birds better.

What do you think?

I really value your opinion.

I think "identify" in this case is the wrong word. A more expensive binocular should allow you to view and notice a better image - sharper and more detail, natural colours and not too much distortion ( fuzziness, glare, colour bias ). This in turn will enable you to see more, if that makes sense.

Identification comes with knowledge, experience and many hours of watching and listening to birds and nature.

The next step would be to take your existing binoculars with you and test them alongside a pair costing €800 and see the difference for yourself. I would think there are retailers near you that have a selection and facilities for demonstration. A good binocular for you , will be a personal choice suitable for your needs, not someone else's.

There is a vast amount of information and help here for you to read through. Firstly though, think about how often you will go birding, and how much your budget is.

My advice is to try out several pairs first and then purchase the unit you are happy with.

Good luck.

RedKnot said:

Hi,

I am thinking of buying new binoculars because I am getting more and more interested in birdwatching.
At the moment, I own some Nikon Prostaff 7s and I'd like to know wether more expensive binoculars, say 800€, would help me to indentify birds better.

What do you think?

I really value your opinion.

Click to expand...

In some cases yes (if sharper bins), but more important, the birding experience will probably be more enjoyable!

The only way to know is to try out a few pairs and compare them.

We are all different.

Yes. A more expensive binocular is generally sharper and has better contrast which can you help me identify the small differences between many species of birds plus a better view makes birding more enjoyable. Buy as good of a binocular as you can afford. Another thing to consider is build quality. In the long run a more expensive binocular is going to hold up better through the years and give you fewer problems than a cheaper one. Consider it a lifetime investment. 600 Euros averaged over 30 years is less than 2 Euros per month. Less than a cup of coffee!

I think this may be the worst place to ask this question, because this forum is frequented by optics enthusiasts who have been looking through various binos for decades and have thus sharpened their ability to notice the tiniest differences. Nothing wrong with that as a hobby of course! But for the vast majority of people, the differences are much smaller than it seems when reading this forum. Yes, if you can comfortably afford top end binos, then why not, I fully trust the experts here that there is a difference and the money is not wasted. But if breaking or losing (most likely to theft) an 800 euro item would be a problem to you and you aren't an optics enthusiast yourself, then I recommend looking at the other end of the price range.

Hi,

unless your existing pair of binoculars is truly awful (which the Nikon Prostaffs are certainly not - quite ok except for a bit narrow field), a better pair of bins will not help a lot with identifying birds.

Actually going out for birding, maybe with a good guide and some way of listening to calls will help over time...

With a spotting scope things might be different in some rare cases at very long range, where a good scope might be able to allow you to identify a far away bird at 60x or more while a mediocre one will not be sharp at anything higher than 30x...

Joachim

Hi,

You get what you pay for!

Only you can determine whether high-quality binoculars are worthwhile for you!
High-quality binoculars are simply better optically and mechanically, thus a bit more quality of life!
I would never buy an expensive car, but binoculars, everyone has their "sins." ...

Andreas

opisska said:

I think this may be the worst place to ask this question, because this forum is frequented by optics enthusiasts who have been looking through various binos for decades and have thus sharpened their ability to notice the tiniest differences. Nothing wrong with that as a hobby of course! But for the vast majority of people, the differences are much smaller than it seems when reading this forum. Yes, if you can comfortably afford top end binos, then why not, I fully trust the experts here that there is a difference and the money is not wasted. But if breaking or losing (most likely to theft) an 800 euro item would be a problem to you and you aren't an optics enthusiast yourself, then I recommend looking at the other end of the price range.

Click to expand...

"But if breaking or losing (most likely to theft) an 800 euro item would be a problem to you and you aren't an optics enthusiast yourself, then I recommend looking at the other end of the price range."

Just get a carrier on your homeowners insurance on your Swarovski's. About $50.00 a year and you don't have to worry about dropping them or theft. Use them and enjoy them. You only live once. I can see having a cheap pair of binoculars if you take them kayaking or mountain climbing or something like that and I wouldn't walk down the streets of New York with a $3K pair of Swaro's around my neck but other than that use them.

Binos

PYRTLE said:

I think "identify" in this case is the wrong word. A more expensive binocular should allow you to view and notice a better image - sharper and more detail, natural colours and not too much distortion ( fuzziness, glare, colour bias ). This in turn will enable you to see more, if that makes sense.

Identification comes with knowledge, experience and many hours of watching and listening to birds and nature.

The next step would be to take your existing binoculars with you and test them alongside a pair costing €800 and see the difference for yourself. I would think there are retailers near you that have a selection and facilities for demonstration. A good binocular for you , will be a personal choice suitable for your needs, not someone else's.

There is a vast amount of information and help here for you to read through. Firstly though, think about how often you will go birding, and how much your budget is.

My advice is to try out several pairs first and then purchase the unit you are happy with.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

RedKnot,

The post above is spot on.

Andy W.

100% agreed with Pat's advice as well -- unless you have total garbage (which the ProStaff 7s is not) better binoculars are NOT about better identification. Some of the worst birders I know in terms of their ability to identify birds are the ones carrying $2500 Swarovskis

The honest truth is that, other than the obsessive optics nuts on this forum, the "diminishing returns" concept for optics sets in very quickly for the basic attributes of brightness / clarity / sharpness on axis. I've spent a lot of time doing side-by-side comparisons of various binoculars, and during daylight any decent $200+ binocular looks pretty darn good.

The differences with more expensive binoculars are more about the other stuff:

- Better build quality and engineering / mechanics, better quality control and reliability (but not always)
- Better correction of optical aberrations, especially those off axis
- More consistent performance in difficult lighting and other tricky viewing situations

These are generally things that you will NOT notice in a quick side-by-side comparison standing outside the store for a few minutes swapping between 2-3 pairs in clear daylight conditions. They will be the things you appreciate (or, on the negative end, annoy you) over time as you use them hour after hour, day after day, in the field.

If you're a "hardcore" birder, using your binoculars for many hours a week, a more expensive pair with better glass will just be easier and more pleasant to use. You'll get less eyestrain, and get more good looks in difficult lighting, but this is subtle unless you're a demanding user.

And obviously your own budget level, as someone else pointed out if losing an expensive binocular will crush you financially, you shouldn't have an expensive binocular.

But there are some really excellent $200-300 binoculars out there, assuming you get a good sample that doesn't have any terrible aberrations and holds up mechanically over time, you could use it for many years happily. I know some really good birders who use basic Nikon Monarchs (not even Monarch 7 level) for example.

I still have a 15 year old Monarch ATB 10x42, the focus knob is still smooth as butter and while it has pretty bad color fringing, antiquated coatings, a narrow FOV, and a pretty small sweet spot, it's not THAT much less bright or sharp than my expensive binoculars if you're not a "connoisseur". If a cataclysm happened and all my binoculars were destroyed except for those old Monarchs, I could still bird with them happily and I doubt I'd miss many identifications that I would have made with a $1000 pair.

eitanaltman said:

The honest truth is that, other than the obsessive optics nuts on this forum...

Click to expand...

Hi,

good that at least someone knows the truth ...

My girlfriend used a pair of binoculars for around 200 euros for years, in a mental confusion I spontaneously gave her a Victory FL 8x32, her first thought was incredible, what a picture, now she's been running around with it for years!
Important, my girlfriend has no idea about optics, but immediately noticed the qualitative differences.

I do not know which binoculars you have tested, but I see differences during the day between 200, - Euro and high-quality binoculars.

It is the same as with a musical instrument, some just hear no difference between the 200, - Euro guitar and the master instrument, both sound like guitars ...

Andreas

RedKnot said:

Hi,

I am thinking of buying new binoculars because I am getting more and more interested in birdwatching.
At the moment, I own some Nikon Prostaff 7s and I'd like to know wether more expensive binoculars, say 800€, would help me to indentify birds better.

What do you think?

I really value your opinion.

Click to expand...

No, more expensive bins won't help much at all in better identification if you do mainly regular birding. :smoke: More expensive bins are often more pleasant to use though.

If you have 600€ extra, buying a zoom camera helps a lot with better identification, like Nikon p900 for under 500 €. 200€ bins + 500€ camera is one of the best combinations for a starting birder.

Other possibility is save your 600€ as start up money for getting a good spotting scope.

A friend is an excellent, and very keen, field observer of birds (with his visual id. enhanced by id. of bird sounds, behavior, etc., as commented above). He is also a leading ornithologist, bird painter, and bird photographer, in this part of the world (sorry that it remains anonymous along with me!)

On the economic side he can afford an "alpha" binocular (indeed his camera gear is such).

For the past ~5 years he has been using a Nikon ProStaff-7S in 10x42. He changed to this from a Nikon ProStaff 8x25 which he used for ~10 years.

Now and then he compares in the field his present instrument with "alphas" of friends.

His visual acuity is at least as sharp as 20/15.

He calls his binocular "fantastic", and sees no useful difference with those.

Many people who post on forums like this are good or excellent, and/or keen, bird and/or nature observers. Many who post are "gear addicts"! But there is an overlap.

RedKnot, I would warn you, as I did my friend, that once you experience "alpha" or "near-alpha" optical quality regularly in your own instrument it can be very difficult to go back and be content!

PS. Forgot to add this. He says the only problem with the ProStaff-7S 10x42 is flare or glare against strong sunlight. He does not know, nor greatly care to know, the difference between those two conditions.

[email protected] said:

"But if breaking or losing (most likely to theft) an 800 euro item would be a problem to you and you aren't an optics enthusiast yourself, then I recommend looking at the other end of the price range."

Just get a carrier on your homeowners insurance on your Swarovski's. About $50.00 a year and you don't have to worry about dropping them or theft. Use them and enjoy them. You only live once. I can see having a cheap pair of binoculars if you take them kayaking or mountain climbing or something like that and I wouldn't walk down the streets of New York with a $3K pair of Swaro's around my neck but other than that use them.

Click to expand...

I don't have any "homeowners insurance" and I am not even sure what it is. Your advice is probably sage, but I presume mostly for people living in the US? I know people take insurance against accidents on their homes in Europe, but I have never heard of the possibility to add on theft outside said house.

I agree with "you only live once", but I would personally rather spend excess money on something else than a slightly better binocular. A lot of optics fans here won't and as I said, that's a complete fair hobby, but that's what my post was about - that I don't think that to do so is a good advice for anyone who has to ask.

The obsession with kit

Jan

The obsession with kit

What has struck me on birdwatching coach trips is that nobody shows any interest in comparing their binocular with anybody else's. They all seem outwardly quite happy with what they've got, whether it's a £100 model, or a £1000 one.

One woman, for example, will happily travel 100 miles to birdwatch all day on the Norfolk coast with a £20 Olympus 7x21 'Blue beetle' reverse porro. She puts me to shame. By contrast, after a couple of years I caught the obsession.

At the start of my birdwatching, I bought a Pentax 8x21 reverse porro for £20. A Nikon VII Action 7x35 at circa £55 was a perfectly good first serious purchase.

But the Pentax was dark, so I gave it to a friend, and spent another £20 on an Olympus 7x21 'Blue beetle' (like the one used by the woman above). And the Nikon was bulky, so I spent £130 on an Opticron 8x32 SR.GA, and later sold the Nikon for a token sum to another friend (who still quite happily continues to use it).

I should have stopped there.

Apart from the lack of waterproofing, the Opticron is an excellent 'general purpose' binocular. The Olympus was a very good bicycle and 'carry everywhere' binocular. It could be be improved as to optical performance, but only at the price of increased bulk and weight.

From what some people on the Forum who use sub-£100 or £200 as well as more expensive binoculars say, beyond the mechanical or optical performance that 'bottom-end' serious binoculars such as the Nikon Action 7x35 or Opticron 8x32 SR.GA have to offer, improvements are increasingly marginal.

But to confine myself to my own experience, I shall just say that I still often prefer to take out the Opticron over any of my subsquent purchases for local walks through field and woodland country ... .

I think it was a secondhand Swift Osprey 7x42 for £5 in a local market that really set off the obsession.

And then Ebay! I even reached the heights of a binocular that has been reckoned by one poster to approach 'Alpha' quality. I bought a Minox BD 8x44 BP for about £70.

My variant of the obsession was to try to 'cover all the bases' -- ie at a price of £10-30 to own a binocular of the right specification for any particular purpose.

(The Minox by way of exception was too fully specified a binocular to pass over).

I clearly from your message though don't need to say to you: Don't do it!

Happy days with the birdwatching!

I have good memories of a week spent in the Biebrza valley.


Stephen

The OP is a teenager wanting to pursue his / her interest, let's help them in their pursuit - who knows, they might go on to great things associated with their hobby including conservation. A better quality bino will help.

adhoc said:

RedKnot, I would warn you, as I did my friend, that once you experience "alpha" or "near-alpha" optical quality regularly in your own instrument it can be very difficult to go back and be content!

Click to expand...

Hi,

I do not understand?!

Why go back, high quality binoculars can be used for decades if you treat them well!
In addition, one should not forget the mostly better service provided by the renowned manufacturer!
There is no law that you have to go back at some point.

Andreas

opisska said:

Your advice is probably sage, but I presume mostly for people living in the US? I know people take insurance against accidents on their homes in Europe, but I have never heard of the possibility to add on theft outside said house.

Click to expand...

Widespread in Europe too, and pretty much standard in the UK. I presume it is available in Poland, as it is in Lithuania.

PYRTLE said:

A better quality bino will help.

Click to expand...

:t:

I also don't understand why high-quality binoculars are cut here?!

People put tens of thousands of dollars in cars, televisions, computers and much more, and binoculars are a cheap option, quality has its price, that's the same with cars and other things, binoculars are no different!
A pair of binoculars is a fine optical instrument, all components should be coordinated as well as possible, high-quality binoculars are therefore not available for 200 euros, you can't expect that.

Andreas

PYRTLE said:

The OP is a teenager wanting to pursue his / her interest, let's help them in their pursuit - who knows, they might go on to great things associated with their hobby including conservation. A better quality bino will help.

Click to expand...

No it won't. They have sufficient quality binoculars already. And if it is indeed a teenager, then the idea of spending large sums of money for marginal improvement is one of the worst things to teach them, as that's how we got the current financially illiterate generation, running around in expensive cars that they don't need but they bought on loan because of a vague feeling that that's "good life".