Confusing junco! (1 Viewer)

prairiemerlin

registered guy

• Nov 5, 2004

• #1

Yesterday I noticed a junco under my feeders. I think it is an Oregon Junco, as it had a dark hood and a brown back. However, some people think its some weird sub-subspecies. Could anyone give their opinions on this bird?

Thanks!

 

KC Foggin

Very, very long time member

Supporter

• Nov 5, 2004

• #2

Okay, now I don't feel so weird about the one I saw on Sunday. I have to dig out my shots and post them too. The one I photographed had the start of a brown back and white striping on its wings. I thought maybe it was perhaps a first year bird.

 

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Last edited: Nov 5, 2004

k-bird

Well-known member

• Nov 5, 2004

• #3

Looks like an Oregon Neil but does lack the rusty sides......Not sure.........

 

Katy Penland

Well-known member

• Nov 5, 2004

• #4

The Oregons I get here all have varying degrees of brown on their backs and even on their heads. I think this may be an age thing, not necesarily a sub-species or variant thing, although it can point to intergrades, too. I've seen female Oregons with more of this brownish wash to their backs, heads and flanks than the males -- but not always. :-(

However, I'm also finding that "the book" keeps being rewritten about this species. What are there now, something like 14 variants of "Dark-eyed junco"? And even after a most interesting article about the "pink-sided" variant in, I think, "Birding" (I'll look up the exact ref if anyone wants it), I'm even more unsure what exactly constitutes a "pink-sided" bird since the amount of pinkish/buffy on the flanks is highly variable even on the Oregons, among other field marks.

Look forward to seeing your photo, too, KC. This winter I'm undertaking a project to photograph each junco in the yard to try to nail down what each variant is that we're getting here. I mean, 4 of the 5 "main" junco variants are fairly easy (red-backed, gray-headed, slate-colored and Oregon), but that pink-sided I'm less sure of.

EDIT: And there your photo is! Love cyber-cross-posting.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2004

B

Bluetail

Senior Moment

• Nov 5, 2004

• #5

Speaking from memory, the Oregon Juncos I saw in Washington were brighter birds than yours, but that may be down to the photograph - or my memory may be faulty. Otherwise I can't see anything inconsistent with that race. But, as always, I'm happy to be corrected by those that live with these birds daily.

 

B

Bluetail

Senior Moment

• Nov 5, 2004

• #6

k-bird said:

Looks like an Oregon Neil but does lack the rusty sides......Not sure.........

Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought that, but if the sides aren't brown they ought to be grey - which they're not either. In fact one photo does show brown sides and I concluded that it's just that the photos aren't showing the feature too well.

 

prairiemerlin

registered guy

• Nov 5, 2004

• #7

Here's another shot of it. It seemed to have grayish flanks, with hints of brownish.

Jason - I took all the pics through a messy window, the window might degrade the colors.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2004

Katy Penland

Well-known member

• Nov 5, 2004

• #8

Okay, found it. It's "Birding," October 2002 issue, "The Identification of Pink-sided Juncos (with cautionary notes about plumage variation and hybridization)" by Jon L. Dunn.

It's the sub-title in parentheses that sets the tone for ensuing and ultimate confusion on what's what when you see it in the field. And a table that breaks down the various sub-species within each "type" of d-e junco: Under Slate-colored, there are 3 s-sp.; Oregon, 8; Gray-headed, 2. It doesn't list Red-backed at all although Red-backed is accorded sub-species status in Sibley's, and is a sub-sp that breeds here on our property each summer (it looks like gray-headed but has a black upper mandible and slightly lighter gray throat, breast and belly than does gray-headed but has the same bright cinnamon triangle on the back as gray-headed).

Two other dark-eyed sub-species are White-winged and Guadalupe juncos, but they don't occur east of the Rockies so I ignored them for the sake of this discussion.

Anyway, I hope you can read this article because it covers far more than just Pink-sided and gives an insight into how challenging these seemingly simple birds can be to ID off their breeding grounds.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2004

prairiemerlin

registered guy

• Nov 5, 2004

• #9

The odd junco didn't show up today. However, I noticed a junco that had white wing bars! It was pale gray all over with a little bit of brown showing through. Here's a bad pic of it:

I've come to the conclusion that it is just a strange Slate-colored. I'd like your opinions, though!

 

Katy Penland

Well-known member

• Nov 5, 2004

• #10

Cool! A great find! I keep looking for one in the batches around here! Sibley says "1 in 200" Slate-colored individuals "have white wing-bars as prominent as White-winged."

 

igglebix

New member

• Nov 20, 2005

• #11

white variant junco

I have his picture as my avitar. A little sport with parts of his color gone.

 

Katy Penland

Well-known member

• Nov 20, 2005

• #12

Looks like what you have there, Igglebix, is a leucistic dark-eyed junco. Any chance that you could post a larger version (800 x 800 pixels) here so we could see more detail? It looks like an interesting bird and I'd love to see what sub-species it is.

I've had a few leucistic juncos in the yard in the past four years with varying degrees of white feathers/patches all over.

 

atricapillus

Well-known member

• Nov 21, 2005

• #13

Brown Creeper said:

Yesterday I noticed a junco under my feeders. I think it is an Oregon Junco, as it had a dark hood and a brown back. However, some people think its some weird sub-subspecies. Could anyone give their opinions on this bird?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

_____________________________
Howdy,
When I moved to Oklahoma, I realized why they are called Dark-eyed Juncos. I don't think they come pure-anything here, although we can distinguish individual males that are all or largely of some form genetically. [It might be largely or mostly Slate-colored (although even these seem to have variations in the darkness of the hood), mearnsii (i.e., Pink-sided; some look pretty good, others muddle), and the montanus form of the Oregon [again with variations]. I am tempted to call many cismontanus [not because it is or isn't a legitimate subspecies, but because many don't seem to fit SCJU or ORJU exactly].
This bird looks like a bird from where the "cismontanus" meets the montanus groups. It looks sort of "montanus-i", but not quite--largely gray at botom of hood at sides. I would say it is certainly on the Oregon side of the spectrum, but certainly not from the center of any distinguishable gene pool.
CHEERS, JOE G