Zen Ray ED2 8x42 and 10x42 evaluations and review (1 Viewer)

Steve C said:

I read edz's last post on Cloudy Nights where he commented about reflection from the retaining ring on the objective and from light coming in from above the binocular.

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No doubt the light is coming from above, however, it was my suspicion that it is reflecting off of the retaining ring. I may have proved that suspicion incorrect this morning. I added black flocked felt (green sticky fetl blackened with marker) to the retaining ring, and it didn't change anything.

Henry mentioned earlier, you can stand behind the binocular and look at the exit pupil and see the very bright reflection arc across the bottom of the exit pupil. The fact that the flocking seemed to be no help indicates to me it is stray light reflecting from some internal surface, or perhaps even more than one surface.

Some people have suggested a correlation with wider angle eyepieces. I don't think so. Stray light is controlled with proper baffles. Baffles are always in front of the focal point. Baffle diameters can be cut too large and prove ineffective, or can be cut too small and reduce apertue, but baffles have no effect on the field of view.

The baffle in the ED2 is in the movable lens element. When that element is all the way forward, at closest focus, that baffle diameter is actually slighly to small and is controlling the aperture. At closest focus, the baffle cuts into the light cone and reduces the binocular to 40mm. At infinity focus the baffle is further towards the rear, closer to the prism, and the light cone passes the baffle and hits the prism aperture. Now, that is just in reference to the on-axis light cone. At infinity focus the baffle is slightly too large and perhaps allows some stray light to pass. There are more baffling requirements for off-axis light to prevent it from becoming stray light.

It is not uncommon for baffles to be mis-sized. Although not related, these are examples of baffles that are too small. I've had an 8x40 that had a baffle so mis-sized that it cut the aperture to about 32mm. I have here right now a 12x50 rp with a movable lens element in which the movable lens element, when is all the way rearward, does not interfere, but when forward, the baffle reduces the aperture to about 46mm.

edz

mooreorless said:

Brock, I think maybe Frank D sings and dances when he gets a new binocular, would that be the same.:-O All joking aside Frank is a great guy!:t:
Regards,Steve

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I think Frank was probably hot-dogging it like a football player in the end zone after a touch down when he received his new Zeiss FL.

The ED2 would provoke a more serene Chinese Hua Sha dance:
http://www.huashadance.org/videos/waterlily-med.jpg

Yes, Frank is a great guy. He sent me a pair of his Cascades porros with the internal focuser to try. I will post some comments about it on the Cascades thread.

Back to the crescent...

When the sun is low in the sky and my bins are pointed at horizontal angle away from the sun, I sometimes see these mystery crescents on the lateral edges.

Whatever the cause, it's not limited to the lower edge, but it's probably most obvious there in the summer, because of the sun being overhead. It's quite common, and not limited to the ZR ED2.

As long as the crescent contains itself to the corners and doesn't reduce the contrast over the entire FOV, it's tolerable. A bit distracting, but contained.

But if it spreads over the entire image, then it becomes an issue.

I've seen this happen in a few bins where if I tilt the angle a bit more, the area of "gray out" goes from a crescent to diminished contrast over the entire image.

I found that with my bins, adding extended rubber shields or Bushwackers to the end of the barrels helps reduce flaring and increase contrast while viewing with the sun overhead or at horizontal angles to the sun.

Brock

Has anyone taken out the ED2 for birding yet? I may get a 9x if it becomes available.

Has anyone taken out the ED2 for birding yet?

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Now why would anyone want to go and do that?




Sorry, could not resist.

...and thanks guys for "kind words".....specially you Steve. Some friend.....



..and, no, I am too big and fat to dance but I once did a little jig.....

haha. Sums up this subforum very well.

FrankD said:

Now why would anyone want to go and do that?




Sorry, could not resist.

...and thanks guys for "kind words".....specially you Steve. Some friend.....



..and, no, I am too big and fat to dance but I once did a little jig.....

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brocknroller said:

Whatever the cause, it's not limited to the lower edge, but it's probably most obvious there in the summer, because of the sun being overhead. It's quite common, and not limited to the ZR ED2.

I found that with my bins, adding extended rubber shields or Bushwhackers to the end of the barrels helps reduce flaring and increase contrast while viewing with the sun overhead or at horizontal angles to the sun.

Brock

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That is my general take from my binocular use. They all show their faults when exposed to these conditions. This probably constitutes a minority of use scenarios and probably do not affect normal use much.

This also makes two of us who seem to be able to reduce the effect with the Bushwacker lens cover. Those covers can also be pulled out a bit when on the binocular for some added effect when one needs to look toward the sun. The flip covers themselves can be used by holding them down a bit from their up position. This is a bit unhandy, but how often are they needed? Just something that can be used to help alleviate the situation.

FrankD said:

Now why would anyone want to go and do that?

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I saw the pictures posted on their website. They are very nice. Curious how much improvement the dielectric coating has.

Hooyah1 said:

Hi everyone, first post on the site. I received my 10x43 ED2s 3 days ago and have been playing with them extensively. I've read all of the reviews (by edz and others) and would like to chime in with my own observations: I do see the grey ghost crescent at the bottom of the lens, but frankly, I have to move my pupils VERY LOW on the lens to get it. Not sure how this compares to the 8x ED2s. Had I not read about it, I would'nt have noticed it. I just have to move the bins to such an exaggerated position to get it that I doubt It will ever bother me. I'm interested to see if any other 10x owners have this same experience. I bought these as a second pair to take hunting here in Arizona. In fact, I brought out my primary pair (EL 8.5x42s) and tried to replicate the same ghost effect. It was definitely there: A fuller, yet dimmer, crescent than the Zens, but I didn't have to move the bins as far out of alignment to get it. I'm no 40-pound head when it comes to optics, but I like what I've seen thus far. I'll let you guys know how they hold up after 2 weeks of trudging around the mountains.

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wait, I don't see 10x43 ED2 on their website, only saw 10x original ED. Are they sold out or they are not available yet?

Yes Falcondude, just checked, and you're right; the 10X ED2 is absent on the Zen site (?) Some have been delivered already, and supposedly I and others here have some on the way.

I noticed that the ED2 10x were no longer on the website too. I had received mine already but have sent them back due to scratches on the right eyepiece. I wonder whats up.

Jess Curious said:

I noticed that the ED2 10x were no longer on the website too. I had received mine already but have sent them back due to scratches on the right eyepiece. I wonder whats up.

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10x43 ED2 were sold out in the first few days after it became available. We expect to restock them in about 2 weeks. Thank you for your patience.

I ordered the 10x ED2s. I am getting ready to send them back to Zen Ray because of the clouding issue. I thought about requesting a different pair until I got on here and saw that everyone else was having the same problem I did to some degree. I used them over the weekend and found the gray crescent to be such a nuisance at nearly all times of day that I switched to a lesser pair of binos so I didn't have to deal with it. At times the clouding covered nearly half of the view and was always present no matter what I tried.

For me everthing had to be perfect to reduce the crescent to unnoticable levels. For the way that I use binocs, perfect conditions are hard to find and changing long developed viewing habits, nearly impossible. These just didn't work out for me.

I should say though that it's going to be hard to look through lesser binocs when I remember those few times when I experienced such optical bliss with the ED2s.

Well I got my ED2 10x and have not noticed this ghosting crescent, if you will, at all. What I have noticed is a superb view, with noticably better resolution, contrast, and light gathering ability than my beloved Trinovid 10x42's. Unbelievable view.

Novice impressions of ED2 10x42

Well, I am new to this forum (I've been lurking for a couple of weeks because I'm looking for a pair of binoculars for a trip to Africa in the next few weeks). I thought that I would join and post my experience as a novice binocular user, which is likely not really relevant to those more experienced, but I thought that I would have the courtesy to contribute whatever little that I could...

I have been playing with the ZR 10x42 ED2 for the past couple of days. I have taken it to the golf course and a baseball game. I have complete inexperience with regards to appreciating optics, but I'll comment on some stuff that I have noticed.

The ZRs have a sloppy focus knob, and the knurls on the focus knob are low profile, such that I was concerned that both issues would be annoying. It turns out that neither is that annoying when using the bins in 75 degree perfect weather, but it would probably be difficult to focus when wearing gloves (in fact, I just tried and found out that it is difficult to focus while using surgeon's gloves). I wonder whether others might comment in if they have some slop to the focus knob as well.

The slow focus is somewhat annoying, however. While it's true that I'm not good at using them yet, I would think that tracking birds would be difficult. Following running lions hopefully will not be... Assuming they are running across or away from me...

The other binoculars that I played with while shopping include Nikon Monarch ATBs, Vortex Diamondback and Viper, Pentax DCF SP, and Monarch X, each in the 10x42 size, though Monarch X was 10.5x45, I think. The only focusing issue that I noticed was slop in the focus knob of the Diamondback, and none of the other bins had any traction issues of slickness of the focus knob (as the ZR does for me). With the ZR, I kind of have to use my fingernail to catch the knurl and move the knob. Out of the others, I liked the "view" of the Monarch X, then Pentax, Monarch ATB, Diamondback least. I tried the Vipers at a different time, and probably would have tried to decide between buying the Vipers and the Pentax, if not for running into this forum and getting diverted to the ZRs. The Monarch X was getting to be a bit more than I was able to spend.

While I was waiting for them to arrive, I got quite concerned about the glare that was mentioned quite a bit by others. I spent a whole round of golf looking through them, and only noticed glare at a particular fairly acute angle while looking towards the sun at the very end of the round, which was later in the afternoon. I also noticed it again today (worse) in a similar situation. I ordinarily would not have been looking in that direction, as the sun was "in my eyes", and only did it because I was wondering about the glare problem and when it would crop up. This glare problem seems to be less than experienced by some others in the list.

Overall, I do like the ZRs, and the view is great! I do notice that the image is less sharp at the edges, but probably wouldn't have noticed until I read about it and got curious. I am just noticing that the strap doesn't fit inside the case, and still seems to be fairly long, though I am only 5-5.

I am happy with the bins, and have decided not to worry about the technical aspects of the binoculars that others are commenting on as I don't really notice them with the way I will be using them (though I do appreciate the detailed reviews, and they are wonderful in helping make the decision to buy...). In my case, I will subscribe to the notion that ignorance is bliss!

I am wondering what the experts would recommend with regards to cleaning the dielectric coated lens, as another thread discussed cleaning, but specifically did not include dielectric coated lens in their discussion.

Thanks, and thank you for the wonderful discussions which have been so helpful in educating me about binoculars!

Margaret

MargaretC said:

I am wondering what the experts would recommend with regards to cleaning the dielectric coated lens, as another thread discussed cleaning, but specifically did not include dielectric coated lens in their discussion.

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The outer lens elements aren't dielectrically coated, its the internal glass prism that is so you don't have to worry about cleaning the outer lens elements in any special way.

shaocaholica said:

The outer lens elements aren't dielectrically coated, its the internal glass prism that is so you don't have to worry about cleaning the outer lens elements in any special way.

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The lens do have a hydrophobic coating on them (that's a bit more delicate than the usual oxide AR coating that's underneath that so don't rub too hard with a cloth. The endurance test I've seen described is how long they last when rubbed with a rubber eraser which is rather tougher than the normal treatment they get.)

The usual "don't scratch the surface" caveats apply.

I find the easier way to clean off the accumulated gunk is: blow the surface to remove all hard particles then to rinse the lenses in slow flowing water. Then clean my index finger and use my index finger tip and a little liquid dish washing detergent (the cheaper ones work better ... avoid ones with siloxanes that give a "squeaky clean" sound). Then rinse a couple of times with slow flowling water. Shake off the remaining watter and dab off any water spots.

Comes up as good as new.

The dielectric mirror coating is on the roof prism's mirror surface and improves reflectivity, over the silver mirror coating, away from the deep red end of the spectrum. It's most noticeable improvement in reflectivity at the blue end of the spectrum.

And how noticeable the effect of this improvement is ,when comparing ED1 and ED2..The differences between the two version are the prism coatings and the focus speed,but i havent read yet a comparison between this aspects ,when putting the two versions side by side,..I am looking forward to hear some comments

mayoayo said:

And how noticeable the effect of this improvement is ,when comparing ED1 and ED2..The differences between the two version are the prism coatings and the focus speed,but i haven't read yet a comparison between this aspects ,when putting the two versions side by side,..I am looking forward to hear some comments

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The ED 2 is bit brighter and shows a bit better contrast than the ED 1. They are however, close enough that you will just about have to have them side by side to see the difference. So from the standpoint of a good image, there may be no good reason to trade the ED 1 for the ED 2, although the ED 2 is a bit better. The ED 1 is quite bright for a silver mirror prism. Brighter I think than the Trinovid. But other coating technology besides silver mirror is probably in play by now.

The focus is faster on the ED 2, stiffer as well, which I happen to like. There is nothing I dislike more than having to always have to jab the CF wheel to refocus a too loose wheel (which way do I move it? I almost always guess wrong) that has moved form nothing more evidently than breathing movements. That is the big complaint I have with my otherwise just about ideal Swift Eaglet 7x36, So I like it a bit stiff. While the ZEN ED 7x36 is bigger than the Swift, it will very probably replace it.

The repellent coatings will be an advantage if a lot of use is in wet or dirty conditions.

And how noticeable the effect of this improvement is ,when comparing ED1 and ED2..The differences between the two version are the prism coatings and the focus speed,but i havent read yet a comparison between this aspects ,when putting the two versions side by side,..I am looking forward to hear some comments

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Yes, isn't it funny how after all of the discussion on a potential fault of this particular design we have heard very little about the positives of it?

I read one review of this particular configuration and came away just shaking my head. Lots of great information in there but I did not see one comment about contrast, CA control or apparent brightness....all the strongpoints of this design.

I have no horse in this race as I continue to evaluate other optics. It is just genuinely surprising to see the discussion of this binocular take this particular turn.....at least from my perspective.

Yes, isn't it funny how after all of the discussion on a potential fault of this particular design we have heard very little about the positives of it?

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Well, that crescent/halo/ghost sort of turned the attention away from the new design. Kind of like a hot new car that has a turbo failure. The car runs great for many but the turbo failure keeps popping up and then its all anyone can think about and they're all worried about theirs going out next.
The Zen-Ray ED2's were way over-hyped which was NOT the fault of the Zen-Ray folks but just the buzz on this forum and others of a fantastic new binocular that would compete with he alphas for a quarter of the price. I ordered a set as soon as I heard of them and alas, I saw the halo-thing too. Very distracting for me , like finding a chip in your tooth with your tongue--You just keep going back to it--trying to find it, even. This phenomenon has not occurred in any other bin's that I own or at least not to such an extent as this and I own alphas through deltas (I like binoculars)
Yet, as someone who likes binoculars I have never really gotten into the details of contrast, CA etc. I'm sort of a "I don't know art, but I know what I like." person. However, I feel compelled to ask How is chromatic aberration measured? What is the standard for contrast? In my ignorance, it seems that both are subjective criteria or is there a device that objectively measures these? And even if there is such a device, aren't our eyes all so different that it still returns to subjectively deciding whats best for me or you?
That said, I note that Zen-Ray sold out of the ED2's and yet only a few of us had an issue with the crescent. Perhaps we all share an eye-shape or neck alignment that just doesn't work with this particular model. If that turns out to be the case when my new ones arrive then that will be hard luck for both Zen-Ray and myself. If, on the other hand, they do work out, then I will have the perfect binocular for the RV. Great viewing but at a price that won't make me suicidal if they get lost or stolen. (Towering rage yes, but not suicidal ;>) )

Happy viewing

JC