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Red-tailed Hawk (1 Viewer)

J

Jim Lundberg

Well-known member
Canon 7D, 300 f2.8L IS + 1.4. ISO 1000, f5.0 1/2000 sec, +2/3 stop exposure compensation (I believe).

I took several photos of this Red-tail, but all at the same camera settings - one of my presets. I'm not happy with the resolution. Would it have been better to reduce ISO or stop down? Is 1/2000 fast enough to stop the wind blur on the chest feathers? Should I quit pixel-peeping. Should I be happy with what I got. I'm still making adjustments to my Birds in Flight settings. It was taken in full sunlight, so the conditions can't get much better.

Thank you, Jim
 

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I guess the resized photo file isn't large enough to illustrate my concerns with the resolution. Ignoring the photo, but given the same equipment and overhead sun, what would you have changed for this bird-in-flight photo -- ISO, f-stop, speed, exposure compensation? I haven't made the jump to shooting raw. because my computer is d!mn?bly slow. Any and all input appreciated.

Thank you, Jim
 
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Well the whole bird's in focus so stopping down further wouldn't have made any difference, as far as IQ goes with the 1.4 on stopping down is pretty much neglible there. The bird appears to be well frozen so shutter speed isn't an issue. All in all I don't see an issue with settings.

The one thing you don't say is how heavy a crop it is which is always the issue as far as resolution is concerned. You could post the shot uncropped to give us an idea. And even though the web image you've posted looks fine to my eyes you could also put on a much larger one for us to judge if you're that concerned. You're allowed 1200x1200 pixels.
 
Jaff said:
The one thing you don't say is how heavy a crop it is which is always the issue as far as resolution is concerned. You could post the shot uncropped to give us an idea. And even though the web image you've posted looks fine to my eyes you could also put on a much larger one for us to judge if you're that concerned. You're allowed 1200x1200 pixels.
Click to expand...

Jaff,

The Red-tailed Hawk uncropped and also a close crop to show detail.

Jim
 

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Jaff,

Am I expecting too much? Perhaps the larger files on the 7D (versus the 40D) are my problem, enlarging them and expecting the same level of detail when I enlarged photos from the 40D.

Given the sunny conditions would you have reduced the ISO setting?

Jim
 
Jim Lundberg said:
Jaff,

The Red-tailed Hawk uncropped and also a close crop to show detail.

Jim
Click to expand...

Yes, the Red-tail photo does look a little soft. I wonder if the lens or TC (or lens + TC combination) is up to snuff? How does your rig perform on other subject matter? Have you done any experimentation? If you haven't, a good start would be to mount the camera on a sturdy tripod & see how it does with inanimate objects.
 
fugl said:
Yes, the Red-tail photo does look a little soft. I wonder if the lens or TC (or lens + TC combination) is up to snuff? How does your rig perform on other subject matter? Have you done any experimentation? If you haven't, a good start would be to mount the camera on a sturdy tripod & see how it does with inanimate objects.
Click to expand...

I'll try that.
 
It does appear slightly OOF so I'm suggesting you may need to calibrate your setup using the micro-adjust. NB You have to do it seprately for the bare lens and with each teleconverter (if you have a 2x as well) but the camera will automatically register each setting if you select the calibrate lens option so whenever you use a TC the camera will automatically recognise it and recall the setting for that particular combo.

It does also seem to me that you're very much in the same group as a lot of people who move from the likes of a 40D to the 7D and find they're not getting the same sharpness because of the great difference in pixel densities. There are many on here who've made that particular jump and they'll be in a far better position than I to advise further. You can also search through the Canon forum as there should be some relevant threads in there to help you as well.

Good luck.
 
Jim, I often use the 7D + 300/2.8 + 1.4tc especially for BIF and the combo is extremely sharp even wide open at f4. The 7D + 300/2.8 is also very good for BIF even with a 2x tc (see attached example shot at 600mm )

Your shutter speed is more than adequate IMO. but the bird does look soft to me.
Were you using I.S and if so in what mode?
Do you use a slow tracking sensitivity? I find this help enormously with BIF

I would try what Fugi suggested about setting up on a tripod and shooting a static object just to see if there is a problem with the combo. If there is then do the micro adjusting test as Jaff suggest (it would not hurt to do this anyway)

The Buzzard shot below was taken with a 2x tc at 1/400 sec and is a fairly heavy crop.
 

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Jaff and Fugl,

I checked the lens focus. I was getting mixed results using a focus sheet at a 45 degree angle. I found another recommendation for aiming straight on to the focus point at 0 microadjustment, then +5 for a shot and -5 for a third shot and compare. I viewed the results side-by-side in Lightroom and found that all lens and TC combinations were best at 0 microadjustment.


Jaff said:
It does also seem to me that you're very much in the same group as a lot of people who move from the likes of a 40D to the 7D and find they're not getting the same sharpness because of the great difference in pixel densities. There are many on here who've made that particular jump and they'll be in a far better position than I to advise further. You can also search through the Canon forum as there should be some relevant threads in there to help you as well.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I read through several threads on 7D pixel densities vs 40D etc. What I gleaned from the threads: A higher shutter speed is required given the same lens/TC combos because of the closer packing of pixels on the 7D - the argument makes sense although I think 1/2000th is generally fast enough for 7D BIF. Most posters agreed that the 7D does better at higher ISO than the 40D, but I will experiment with reducing my Preset BIF ISO setting from 1000 to 640 and take whatever f-stop results at 1/2000th. Finally, I had hoped that the extra pixels on the 7D would be like getting a longer lens, but crop-ability seems about the same as from my 40D. Ah well... the 7D BIF focus is superb.

Jim
 
Roy C said:
Jim, I often use the 7D + 300/2.8 + 1.4tc especially for BIF and the combo is extremely sharp even wide open at f4. The 7D + 300/2.8 is also very good for BIF even with a 2x tc (see attached example shot at 600mm )

Your shutter speed is more than adequate IMO. but the bird does look soft to me.
Were you using I.S and if so in what mode?
Do you use a slow tracking sensitivity? I find this help enormously with BIF

I would try what Fugi suggested about setting up on a tripod and shooting a static object just to see if there is a problem with the combo. If there is then do the micro adjusting test as Jaff suggest (it would not hurt to do this anyway)

The Buzzard shot below was taken with a 2x tc at 1/400 sec and is a fairly heavy crop.
Click to expand...

Roy,

Nice buzzard shot on one of those all-too-rare sunny days there. I'm impressed with the IQ for the 2x TC. The 2x IQ on my micro-adjustment test shots was also very good. My 2x has been benched lately for missing a couple key shots, due to slow focus.

I use a monopod, but I leave the stabilizer mode set to 1.

I believe that my AI servo tracking preset was "Slow" for that photo. Since then, I have adjusted my BIF preset to AI Servo "0" sensitivity. I found the "0" tracking sensitivity keeps up better with swifts and swallows. My BIF preset is C3, up against the dial stop for quick shots, and I use it only for birds against the sky.
 
Jim Lundberg said:
I had hoped that the extra pixels on the 7D would be like getting a longer lens, but crop-ability seems about the same as from my 40D. Ah well... the 7D BIF focus is superb.

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim, I find the 7D cropability a lot better than the 40D (which I still have) . I have got many web shots that are near 100% crops. The buzzard I posted above is less than 20% of the original frame. The main thing to cropping heavily is (a) nailing the focus and (b) nailing the exposure (shooting to the right).
 
Jim Lundberg said:
Roy,

Nice buzzard shot on one of those all-too-rare sunny days there. I'm impressed with the IQ for the 2x TC. The 2x IQ on my micro-adjustment test shots was also very good. My 2x has been benched lately for missing a couple key shots, due to slow focus.

I use a monopod, but I leave the stabilizer mode set to 1.

I believe that my AI servo tracking preset was "Slow" for that photo. Since then, I have adjusted my BIF preset to AI Servo "0" sensitivity. I found the "0" tracking sensitivity keeps up better with swifts and swallows. My BIF preset is C3, up against the dial stop for quick shots, and I use it only for birds against the sky.
Click to expand...
Jim, Like you I did the micro adjustments test at 300mm 420mm and 600mm and found that in all cases there was no adjustment needed.

I guess when shooting with a 2x tc that you have a focus limiter set - makes all the difference I find.

For BIF and shooting on a tripod I use I.S. Mode 2 in fact I tent to use mode 2 just about all the time. Not saying mode 1 is wrong but I certainly find mode 2 best.

As I understand it the AI Servo tracking sensitivity just effects the speed at which the camera will focus on something else if you lose the main subject. What I really like about it is if you lose the bird you have plenty of time to get back on it without the lens going widely out of focus - that is why BIF with the 40D is so difficult, the split second you lose the bird the camera latches on to something in the background.
Must admit I don't bother much with the likes of Swifts and Swallows though, drive me mad trying to capture those guys in flight, I generally end up with my head in a spin :-O

BTW did you notice that the Buzzard shot was at 1/400 sec only.
 
Roy,

Good point to have a focus limit set - should speed things up. I intend to bring the 2x along next sunny day. I'll remember to set it 6.4-inf.

Does mode 2 focus faster than mode 1?

This summer I was experiencing frustration focussing swifts against the sky. I increased the tracking sensitivity from "Slow" to "0", and focus tracking improved noticeably. I agree that "Slow" is the way to go with a broken or cluttered background.

I did notice that 1/400 worked quite nicely on the buzzard photo using the same equipment I use. I'm encouraged to reduce the shutter speed and reduce the ISO for my BIF against the sky preset: ISO 640, 1/1600, +2/3 exposure.

Always learning...

Thank you, Jim
 
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Well obviously the thing with very high pixel densities is it exposes camera shake much more than lower ones. If you track a bird very smoothly and keep the whole rig steady you shouldn't have any problems with low shutter speeds but once you start flinging it around tracking fast moving BIF's (swallows and swifts) that's when I imagine the differences between the likes of a 40D and a 7D at 100% will be most apparent. It's these occasions that you need to maintain as high a shutter speed as possible and not be afraid to ring as much out of it as you can with high ISO's and wide open apertures. Also when doing BIF's against a sky I find it much easier to activate all the focus points for keeping locked on the bird. I think most folk do.

There is one last thing I'll mention. I think I recall it being said that because they have to 'guestimate' them, cameras can produce more noise when using the ISO in 1/3 stops, eg 640 or 1000 as opposed to the full fstop jumps like 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 and so on. So in future maybe think about shooting wide open and at ISO800 for any BIF work, even if it's sunny which is when a lot of people lower their ISO thinking they have enough light. That works if you're bird ain't doing much but if you wanna freeze fast action, counteract camera shake and so come away with sharp shots then you can never have too much shutter speed and the cameras these days can more than handle the high ISO's. But it looks like you already understand that Jim. :t:

That's as much as I can offer. Happy hunting out there.
 
Jaff said:
Well obviously the thing with very high pixel densities is it exposes camera shake much more than lower ones. If you track a bird very smoothly and keep the whole rig steady you shouldn't have any problems with low shutter speeds but once you start flinging it around tracking fast moving BIF's (swallows and swifts) that's when I imagine the differences between the likes of a 40D and a 7D at 100% will be most apparent. It's these occasions that you need to maintain as high a shutter speed as possible and not be afraid to ring as much out of it as you can with high ISO's and wide open apertures. Also when doing BIF's against a sky I find it much easier to activate all the focus points for keeping locked on the bird. I think most folk do.

There is one last thing I'll mention. I think I recall it being said that because they have to 'guestimate' them, cameras can produce more noise when using the ISO in 1/3 stops, eg 640 or 1000 as opposed to the full fstop jumps like 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 and so on. So in future maybe think about shooting wide open and at ISO800 for any BIF work, even if it's sunny which is when a lot of people lower their ISO thinking they have enough light. That works if you're bird ain't doing much but if you wanna freeze fast action, counteract camera shake and so come away with sharp shots then you can never have too much shutter speed and the cameras these days can more than handle the high ISO's. But it looks like you already understand that Jim. :t:

That's as much as I can offer. Happy hunting out there.
Click to expand...

Jaff, thank you for the info - all of it good. I'll use it. Jim
 
Jaff said:
, cameras can produce more noise when using the ISO in 1/3 stops, eg 640 or 1000 as opposed to the full fstop .
Click to expand...
Yep, I have read that, in fact I set my camera so it only changes ISO in full stop increments. Having said that I have notice quite a lot recently that many very good bird photographers will routinely shoot at 1/3 stop increments so I am wondering if things have changed a bit with camera produced over recent years.
 
I think it was certainly true of my 40D. I've got quite a few Waxwing shots from last year at ISO 640 where I'm quite unhappy with the noise levels. Before I got the MK3 I used the 40D at 800 a lot and found it a bit cleaner I think. I have taken the occasional image at the likes of 1000 or 1250 with the MK3 and it seems decent but with ISO 1600 being so good like the Snipe in my gallery I hardly bother with them and stick to full fstops like you Roy.
 
Jim Lundberg said:
Roy,

Good point to have a focus limit set - should speed things up. I intend to bring the 2x along next sunny day. I'll remember to set it 6.4-inf.

Does mode 2 focus faster than mode 1?

Thank you, Jim
Click to expand...
Yep, I usually use 6.4-inf Jim when I have the 2x tc on board, makes a heck of difference to AF speed. Without the focus limiter if the subject is a fair way out of focus then the AF will go out to infinity, back to 2.5 mtrs and then out again to acquire focus - this does not happen if you have a focus limiter set.
Not a problem with a 1.4 tc attached though, it is quick AF no matter what is set as you probably know.

As for the I.S mode for flyers, providing you have a decent shutter speed, say 1/1000 or faster then a lot of folk switch I.S. off as AF is supposedly quicker if the I.S. does not have to kick in.
If you do use I.S. then mode 2 is reckoned to be the one to use as it is the recommended panning mode. As I understand it from reading a Canon white paper once, mode 2 on this lens is the same as mode 1 with the exception that if it does not pick up much vertical movement then the up/down I.S. is switched off. If it does pick up up/down movement then it switches the vertical I.S. back on.

I have tried BIF with and without I.S. quite a lot and I certaily get better results with I.S.on (mode 2) no matter what the shutter speed is.

If shooting on a tripod or monopod then mode 2 is recommended from what I have read as a forced vertical I.S. (mode 1) can cause somewhat blurred images. I cannot say one way or the other myself as I have never used mode 1 on a pod.

p.s. could have my vertical and Horizontal transposed on the I.S. but you get my drift.

Just my 2p's worth.
 
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Jaff said:
I think it was certainly true of my 40D. I've got quite a few Waxwing shots from last year at ISO 640 where I'm quite unhappy with the noise levels. Before I got the MK3 I used the 40D at 800 a lot and found it a bit cleaner I think. I have taken the occasional image at the likes of 1000 or 1250 with the MK3 and it seems decent but with ISO 1600 being so good like the Snipe in my gallery I hardly bother with them and stick to full fstops like you Roy.
Click to expand...
From what I have read Adam the theory behind these intermediate ISO levels is that the Camera reverts to the full stop below the one you want and then 'pushes' the exposure via software up to the level you set. If this is so then we all know that pushing exposure can cause noise. Could be completely wrong though as such things are above my level of expertise.
 
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