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Is there anything wrong with a photographic guide to birds? (1 Viewer)

A

amelia1730

Well-known member
When I started watching birds I bought a copy of the Collins field guide and a copy of the RSPB one and a fabulous book, which I love, by Dominic Couzens called Birds by Behaviour. I refer to it often.

What I would like to know is, what the experienced birders feel about photographic guides. I have just purchased yet another book, by Paul Sterry, which is just such a guide. I think it's great but does this mean I am not to be taken seriously as a keen, eager to learn birder? I have only been wrapped up in this way of life for a couple of years or so, so I guess I would still be considered a 'novice', although I know 'heaps' more than my husband, who is a reluctant "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" participant. The Paul Sterry book is great because it shows photos, not just of the male but also of juvenile birds and females and sometimes the birds in flight too. I find it much easier than line drawings. Am I wrong to be resorting to this book? Will I be a laughing stock at Titchwell? Will I be refused entry into Minsmere? Should I grit my teeth and clutch my Collins guide in my hot little hand and continue to struggle? My tongue is in my cheek a little but I really would like to know what people think.
 
Photo guides are really useful and can often show features more clearly than a painted plate. However, in general I think that most experienced birders would prefer to use well painted plates. The reason is that the ilustrator will have looked at many wild birds, photos and skins in museums and used them to represent a 'typical' example of each plumage, which shows all the features in the best light and conditions. They are also able to choose the best pose and overlap pictures to get more on a page.

Tom
 
Leave all the guides in your car if you want to fit in with the big boys. Then make a few notes and sort out the id when you get back to the car park.
If you really want to be cool don't bother with your scope as it's only the mindless sheep brained idiots who carry them everywhere. You only need a scope if you are seawatching or counting waders, unless you are twitching something that is more than 50 metres away. Of course a scope and tripod, with legs fully extended are useful if you want to settle a few scores with the assembled masses, or bruise the dudes in a hide at Minsmere.
 
scary-canary said:
Leave all the guides in your car if you want to fit in with the big boys. Then make a few notes and sort out the id when you get back to the car park.
If you really want to be cool don't bother with your scope as it's only the mindless sheep brained idiots who carry them everywhere. You only need a scope if you are seawatching or counting waders, unless you are twitching something that is more than 50 metres away. Of course a scope and tripod, with legs fully extended are useful if you want to settle a few scores with the assembled masses, or bruise the dudes in a hide at Minsmere.
Click to expand...

You can look really cool- unfortunately you will miss some birds. It's difficult to distinguish, for example, a Ringed Plover from a Little Ringed Plover if you only have bins. Typical arrogance from a birder who derides other people with less experience who might need to consult a field guide in a hide.
 
Your collins guide is a really good book and when seeing a bird for the first time, its handy to be able to read about it as well. As for Titchwell and Minsmere, i'm sure there are people in both places and other reserves all over the country who would be more than happy to help with advise.
I'm sure one day, one of these "big boys" might even ask to borrow yours to confirm a sighting.
 
PAULBOY said:
You can look really cool- unfortunately you will miss some birds. It's difficult to distinguish, for example, a Ringed Plover from a Little Ringed Plover if you only have bins. Typical arrogance from a birder who derides other people with less experience who might need to consult a field guide in a hide.
Click to expand...

I was neither being arrogant nor deriding another birder. In fact what I was trying to say was that it's important to enjoy the birding without worrying what others think. There will be lots of chance to get good views of both little ringed plover and ringed plover in a lifetime of birding. You don't need a scope with you always to enjoy the views. And what does it matter if you miss some birds. Let's not go throwing the "typical arrogant" label around - just makes you sound grumpy and small.
 
amelia1730 said:
When I started watching birds I bought a copy of the Collins field guide and a copy of the RSPB one and a fabulous book, which I love, by Dominic Couzens called Birds by Behaviour. I refer to it often.

What I would like to know is, what the experienced birders feel about photographic guides. I have just purchased yet another book, by Paul Sterry, which is just such a guide. I think it's great but does this mean I am not to be taken seriously as a keen, eager to learn birder? I have only been wrapped up in this way of life for a couple of years or so, so I guess I would still be considered a 'novice', although I know 'heaps' more than my husband, who is a reluctant "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" participant. The Paul Sterry book is great because it shows photos, not just of the male but also of juvenile birds and females and sometimes the birds in flight too. I find it much easier than line drawings. Am I wrong to be resorting to this book? Will I be a laughing stock at Titchwell? Will I be refused entry into Minsmere? Should I grit my teeth and clutch my Collins guide in my hot little hand and continue to struggle? My tongue is in my cheek a little but I really would like to know what people think.
Click to expand...


I have the Paul Sterry Book and the Collins book as I like to use drawings and photos for ID. However I leave both at home! Not because I want to look cool but because they are a little bit bulky and there is too much in the Collins one for my liking as a field guide. When I'm out and about I use the RSPB 'pocket birds' by Jonathan Elphick and John Woodward ISBN 0751336785. It is small enough to fit in my pocket and combines photos and drawings and it lists similar species with each description which I find particularly useful.

If there is any that I can't ID with this in the field I make notes and sort it out when I get home.
 
amelia1730 said:
What I would like to know is, what the experienced birders feel about photographic guides.
Click to expand...

The Ultimate Guide (tm) would have both photos and artwork, and plenty of each, as neither is satisfactory on its own. Eventually we'll have that with electronic guides on some sort of handheld computer thingy, that will make today's guidebooks just a painful memory.
 
scary-canary said:
I was neither being arrogant nor deriding another birder. In fact what I was trying to say was that it's important to enjoy the birding without worrying what others think. There will be lots of chance to get good views of both little ringed plover and ringed plover in a lifetime of birding. You don't need a scope with you always to enjoy the views. And what does it matter if you miss some birds. Let's not go throwing the "typical arrogant" label around - just makes you sound grumpy and small.
Click to expand...

There is practical advice in not having a field guide with you whilst actually being out birding. It is better to take notes and consult afterwards, as you may start to invent features on a bird by looking in the guide at the wrong bird that aren't actually present on the one your looking at. Having said that sometimes it can be useful to remind you to look for certain key identification features that would have clinched your id, so I'd always keep one in the car.

As for birding without a scope - why? It's an aid in most habitats and gives more enjoyment from better views which after all is what this hobby is all about, although sometimes in woodland for example you may not gain much advantage. As I digiscope, it accompanies me every time.

There's a guide to North American birds that has very good photographic plates, with pointers showing the key features, (can't remember the name). I find I like to look at both plates and photographs and to be specific re. the original query, certainly nothing wrong with a guide with photographs.
 
I agree it is good to carry as little as neccesary. However I started out with Messrs Jonathan Elphick and John Woodward and soon found that the colours were so poor that what I was told was there, as a beginner , was nothing like the book. So I think it is very important to carry a guide that is a good record of the bird as one sees it. I spent a lot of time at the Bird Fair looking at all they had to offer, and the Collins, heavy as it is can't be beaten IMHO.
 
Lawts said:
There is practical advice in not having a field guide with you whilst actually being out birding. It is better to take notes and consult afterwards, as you may start to invent features on a bird by looking in the guide at the wrong bird that aren't actually present on the one your looking at. .
Click to expand...

Got it in one there Steve...taking notes is the key. Good field notes will win every time when put against 'I looked it up in my field guide and that was the bird' type scenario.
 
hi amelia
both types of books are very usefull, and we all refer to them from time to time..my parterner found the photo type very usefull and still does as shes fairly new to this great obsession..if anyone laughs or sneers at you in a hide because of you getting a field guide out thats there ignorance not yours.. most birders are only too happy to help and point out new things to people who are interested ..we are all learning and some people forget they were once like you and my partener..
always take notes on the spot.. so to speak
alb
seggs
 
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amelia1730 said:
When I started watching birds I bought a copy of the Collins field guide and a copy of the RSPB one and a fabulous book, which I love, by Dominic Couzens called Birds by Behaviour. I refer to it often.

What I would like to know is, what the experienced birders feel about photographic guides. I have just purchased yet another book, by Paul Sterry, which is just such a guide. I think it's great but does this mean I am not to be taken seriously as a keen, eager to learn birder? I have only been wrapped up in this way of life for a couple of years or so, so I guess I would still be considered a 'novice', although I know 'heaps' more than my husband, who is a reluctant "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" participant. The Paul Sterry book is great because it shows photos, not just of the male but also of juvenile birds and females and sometimes the birds in flight too. I find it much easier than line drawings. Am I wrong to be resorting to this book? Will I be a laughing stock at Titchwell? Will I be refused entry into Minsmere? Should I grit my teeth and clutch my Collins guide in my hot little hand and continue to struggle? My tongue is in my cheek a little but I really would like to know what people think.
Click to expand...
Hello Amelia,
I've been birding about 3yrs. Everywhere I go birding I take a set of bins, a scope, a notebook and pencil and my Collins Bird Guide. I am quite happy to have, when I look from a hide, my notebook and Collins guide beside my scope while I'm there. I could'nt give a toss if I'm considered a 'novice' or not. If I'm unsure of an identification, in spite of my books, then I'm happy to ask others in the hide for help; not once have I been offered help that isn't full of enthusiasm from the person/s giving advice.

LUG
 
Hello Amelia (Two observations)
a) This is your hobby, you do whatever is needed for you
to gain most pleasure/information from it. Enjoy whatever
equipment you have (water is better than wine, when
thirsty!). If your head's in a book then you could miss
the 'jewel' outside! Haveing said that. I always carry my
old / battered ref. book and my well used (1960) binoculars.
I couldn't care a damn what other think. Although I'm sure,
no, I know, that they couldn't care either!

b) Fashion!!! Now this is a different thing altogether. How do
I look??? This aint for birders. Where do you stop,you can
never win. There'll always be somebody with something
bigger/better than you.

Simply enjoy what you have, when you do it, wherever you are!
I think I'll stop now. I'm starting to feel abit embarrassed.

Kindest regards,
young Ian.
 
Personally I avoid photographic guides, because I consider them far inferior to good paintings. Usually the artist who paints has studied the birds and looked at different skins etc., and is able to depict a typical example of the species. Often with photographic guides it can appear that some of the rarer or more skulking species have been rushed in an attempt to complete the guide. Any old picture will do in otherwords.

Artists are also able to show all types of different plumages and races on the same page, often in the same painting, something which is very rarely possible with a photo. Direct comparison of different races is much more difficult with a photo. Finally, the photographer relies too heavily on good light.

Only you can decide if you need to carry your guide with you. I wouldn't if I was you, because I think it's too much effort carrying them. I like to travel light. If you've been birding a couple of years, you'll probably know most of the species you're likely to see anyway.

Somebody else mentioned scopes, and only taking them when you need them. I completely agree. Avoid carrying scopes unless you know you will need them, e.g. hides, estuaries and sea. Carrying a scope for general birding is usually a painful waste of time. I'd rather miss the occasional species than put myself through that.
 
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Scary-Canary - A tad blunt don't you think?

My feeling is that artist illustrations are most useful in identifying main features but that birds in the field often show a variety of deviations from those main features dependent upon a wide variety of factors ranging from plumage status, condition, light conditions and even weather conditions whilst photographs can help to demonstrate some of those possible variation in actual observation.

If I'm unsure; I tend to reference both and If I'm still unsure I get out a few DVD's or get on t'internet as there's a great deal more to identifying a bird than shape and colouration; there's also call, song, jizz, habitat and range. Of course if I'm still really unsure then I come and ask you guys.
 
DGRW said:
Scary-Canary - A tad blunt don't you think?
Click to expand...

How so? I'm so irritated when people have a go at people for being "arrogant twitchers".
We don't know how good most people on this site are at identifying birds, and even if we did why do we label them? I offered an opinion (with my tongue firmly in my cheek about tripods).
I still believe there is no place for a scope and tripod in a hide full of people. Out in the field, on the saltmarsh, on the heath fine. And at a twitch in a line of people fine too. But in a crowded confined space leave it in your car or at home. And you'll learn the jizz of birds better too.
 
with my tongue firmly in my cheek
Click to expand...
Same here Scary, same here.

I do agree that many birds can be seen and recognised without a large scope and a tripod however, I'm not personally particularly interested in "spotting" them but in actually getting a good look at them and this is often best achieved using a scope and a tripod.

I've rarely found tripods in hides to be much of a problem and there are "hide mounts" though they tend to be only as stable as the peice of wood to which they're attached.

Anyway, when I'm looking at a Purple Sandpiper, five hundred yards away on the other side of a scrape, I'd really prefer to get a good look at the bird and unfortunately a pair of 8 x 30's or even 10 x 50's don't give me that.

Maybe I'm just as blind as a bat.

PS: If a tripod is really in your way you'll only have to trip over it a couple of times before the owner moves it.

PPS: .....in my experience.
 
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LUG said:
Hello Amelia,
I've been birding about 3yrs. Everywhere I go birding I take a set of bins, a scope, a notebook and pencil and my Collins Bird Guide. I am quite happy to have, when I look from a hide, my notebook and Collins guide beside my scope while I'm there. I could'nt give a toss if I'm considered a 'novice' or not. If I'm unsure of an identification, in spite of my books, then I'm happy to ask others in the hide for help; not once have I been offered help that isn't full of enthusiasm from the person/s giving advice.

LUG
Click to expand...

Although the first part of this thread posed a serious question on my part the end was, as I said before, tongue in cheek. Like you I don't give a toss what people think of my clothing, books, bins etc etc or how experienced I may or may not be. Neither am I impressed by 'what people have got'. I very soon learned that those with the most kit were not necessarily the ones to approach if I had a question. On one occasion at Titchwell I was looking at a duck I was unfamiliar with whilst standing beside a chap with a very expensive scope, DSLR and all the gear you could imagine, looking at same duck and clicking away. Thinking it was something of great importance I finally plucked up the courage to ask him what it was and he replied "I dunno"!
 
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