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at last the shell guide british birds (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Prestdj
- Start date
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
I don't really get the 'at last' - seems to be easily obtainable for a fiver or less on the internet.
I thought the illustrations were good for their time, but strangely badly reproduced. The cover doesn't show how washed out some of the images looked inside.
I thought the illustrations were good for their time, but strangely badly reproduced. The cover doesn't show how washed out some of the images looked inside.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
My mother had Heinzel Fitter and Parslow and I hated it, thought the illustrations in many cases were awful, especially the shapes. The Shell Guide did a useful thing: it split out the rarer species so as you looked for something you were forced to acknowledge the common ones were the most likely option, so you had to make a deliberate move into the rare stuff. For the benefit of beginners all field guides should do this, possibly labelling the two sections "birds you might see" and "birds you aren't going to find".
It was a great day when I nailed my last "front of Shell Guide" species.
Not sure if I've even got a copy now, they weren't terribly durable. If I have it's nostalgia. I definitely haven't got HFP though, that hit the bin years back.
John
It was a great day when I nailed my last "front of Shell Guide" species.
Not sure if I've even got a copy now, they weren't terribly durable. If I have it's nostalgia. I definitely haven't got HFP though, that hit the bin years back.
John
jogresh
Bimble and patch
I started out with the Heinzel, Fitter, Parslow as a young lad early 80s, loved it, it had all these amazing birds from amazing places. The distribution maps were fascinating - Demoiselle Crane in Morocco, Striped Crake dispersing to Tunisia 🤔 etc etc! The Shell when it arrived was great, and seen as much less dude-y and the illustrations, although sub-par by today's standards, were an improvement. But once Lars Jonsson came along, illustrations really improved. The Shell gave numbers of accepted records of the rarities (thanks JTRS!).
JWN Andrewes
Poor Judge of Pasta.
The Hamlyn was my first field guide, joined later by HFP (which I've lost), and then the Shell, an early example of green-washing by a petrochemical giant. This thread sent me to the back of the bookshelf to see if I still had my copy.
Front of Shell Guide is an impossibility for anyone starting today, since the demise of at least Lady Amherst's and possibly also Golden Pheasants.
Front of Shell Guide is an impossibility for anyone starting today, since the demise of at least Lady Amherst's and possibly also Golden Pheasants.
Attachments
Oddly, I also first took an interest in Heinzel cos my mum had it... Each to his own preferences/hatreds of course, but, when you talk about awful shapes etc, are you sure you're not confusing it with the Hamlyn guide? - which was of the same era and very similar in concept, and did have, I thought, some truly gruesome artwork with deformed-looking birds - its waders for instance, if memory is still serving.
KenM
Well-known member
Imagine the reigning confusion, with that being your “only” source of reference, when trying to ID that unmentionable Thrush of yesteryear!🤣
Steve Lister
Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.
I started with Observers, then Hamlyn (groundbreaking at the time) followed by HFP (which included a wider range) and Shell. Plus a very early Peterson Collins that somehow disappeared from Tadcaster library. Still like the Hamlyn purely for how revolutionary it was when it came out.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
dantheman
Bah humbug
;-)
I was going to say - I rather liked the illustrations in the old Collins HFP! What does that now make of your post #5 above and the 5 people who 'liked' it, given it was total misinformation lol?!?!
I don't recall the Hamlyn especially ...
Another difference not mentioned on this thread was the Shell Guide was Britain and Ireland (?), whereas the HFP was Britain and Europe plus Northern Africa and the Middle East, so maybe not directly comparable. The HFP came out 8 or 9 years before the Shell Guide I believe. HFP did have very European rare vagrants/accidentals in the back listed, but only illustrated some, and other 'commoner' European rarities in the body of the text such as Forster's Tern etc and eg a double page spread of some of the more regular Yank passerines.
Someone showed me the Shell Guide (early 90s) saying that was the book I should have, but I was just that put off by the faded little pictures that I didn't delve further (I wasn't a UK twitcher per se, so had no major interest that the Collins didn't provide tbh).
As mentioned, I did rather like the illustrations - some pages had a background colour other than white iirc, and I did like the occasional vignettes of some of the birds (perhaps desert sparrows or Bedouin in the background of one of the desert raptors??)
My HFP is in a box somewhere (plus the Shell Guide and a few others I picked up like the Lars and Mitchell Beazely also second hand out of interest)
Some images from inside are here -
The Birds of Britain and Europe Heinzel, Fitter and Parslow
The Birds of Britain and Europe With North Africa and The Middle East by Hermann Heinzel, Richard Fitter and John Parslow Collins, 1972, colour illustrations throughout, paperback Very Good Condition, some edge and shelf wear, some rubbing, bumping, creasing and soiling to edges and corners...
www.morgansrarebooks.com
I don't think they're bad. And we are of course not talking the level of descriptive text as in the current Collins by any means (the book is now c45 years old). Apologies to the OP if the discussion isn't about the Shell Guide as such.
EDIT: Oh and an interesting challenge trying to tick off 'whole pages' of the HFP Collins - usually in a European context, made trickier as some pages often included one or more much more difficult/impossibles like Andalusian Hemipode etc
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Prestdj
its good to be back
i just wanted a copy of the shell guide yes the plates are faded which is a shame but i really liked it in the 80's i have all the other books mentioned........i just like books, which back then cost a lot of money. would love to know how my copy of birding frontiers signed is worth
It's commonly said that the illustrations suffered through poor reproduction - but I saw the original artwork and in fact it was just the same - unfortunately. The reproduction was fine.
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Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
My very first, bird book when I was eight or nine, was the 'Ladybird' book of Heathland birds, think it had a Dartford Warbler on the front.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Quite - but I wonder how many others didn't buy HFP because they confused it with the Hamlyn guide? 🤣;-)
I was going to say - I rather liked the illustrations in the old Collins HFP! What does that now make of your post #5 above and the 5 people who 'liked' it, given it was total misinformation lol?!?!
I don't recall the Hamlyn especially ...
Another difference not mentioned on this thread was the Shell Guide was Britain and Ireland (?), whereas the HFP was Britain and Europe plus Northern Africa and the Middle East, so maybe not directly comparable. The HFP came out 8 or 9 years before the Shell Guide I believe. HFP did have very European rare vagrants/accidentals in the back listed, but only illustrated some, and other 'commoner' European rarities in the body of the text such as Forster's Tern etc and eg a double page spread of some of the more regular Yank passerines.
Someone showed me the Shell Guide (early 90s) saying that was the book I should have, but I was just that put off by the faded little pictures that I didn't delve further (I wasn't a UK twitcher per se, so had no major interest that the Collins didn't provide tbh).
As mentioned, I did rather like the illustrations - some pages had a background colour other than white iirc, and I did like the occasional vignettes of some of the birds (perhaps desert sparrows or Bedouin in the background of one of the desert raptors??)
My HFP is in a box somewhere (plus the Shell Guide and a few others I picked up like the Lars and Mitchell Beazely also second hand out of interest)
Some images from inside are here -
The Birds of Britain and Europe Heinzel, Fitter and Parslow
The Birds of Britain and Europe With North Africa and The Middle East by Hermann Heinzel, Richard Fitter and John Parslow Collins, 1972, colour illustrations throughout, paperback Very Good Condition, some edge and shelf wear, some rubbing, bumping, creasing and soiling to edges and corners...
I don't think they're bad. And we are of course not talking the level of descriptive text as in the current Collins by any means (the book is now c45 years old). Apologies to the OP if the discussion isn't about the Shell Guide as such.
EDIT: Oh and an interesting challenge trying to tick off 'whole pages' of the HFP Collins - usually in a European context, made trickier as some pages often included one or more much more difficult/impossibles like Andalusian Hemipode etc
Cheers
John
wheatearlp
Well-known member
I remember having the discussion in the early 1970s with a birding friend, both of us aged c.12, on the differing merits of Hamlyn vs. HFP. I went with the latter, he with the former. I remain happy with my choice & still have the book in a box somewhere in the house.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Washed out?
(I read the thread last night, was the word 'faded' used then? In any case, the illustrations, to my recollection were small, faint, and a bit 'lost' on the page?). Sounds like they weren't quite fit for purpose at some stage in the design process then ...
dantheman
Bah humbug
Depends on how many other people at the time you told that it was rubbish? ... ;-)
(I seem to have a recollection now that you stated the HFP was rubbish on a thread on here 5 or 10 years ago ... lol ... )
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