Not enlightened...10x Porros: Nikon se, e2 or ?... (1 Viewer)

Hello all,

The Buddha says that one can't acheive happiness until one can break the cycle of attainment and disatisfaction :clap: ...I've still got the bug, I'm afraid. Oh well.

In October, I bought a pair of 8x32 trinovid bns, which are fantastically small and great optically and I'm perfectly happy with them (so I am partially enlightened, I suppose). However...I'm still atracted to the potentials of a 10x bin, especially out here in the West where many birds can be a bit distant.
I'm a get-the-best-optical-bang-for-the-buck kind of guy, so am looking around for a pair of 10x porros (I was happy with my swift audubons for years except that they were not waterproof). I'd love to spring for a pair of zeiss FLs but don't have the gick and I was also turned off by the soft edges. The only constraint beside price is eye relief. My leicas have exactly the right amount of e.r. at about 14mm. Since I've got the trinovids, these don't need to be waterproof.

The nikon se's seem to get reviews that are a bit less stellar than the 8x32's--how do the 8's and 10x's compare? More importantly, I'm specifically curious about how the se and e2 compare in the 10x--are the se's worth 2x's the price? (the e2's seem like a real steal...).

Also, are there other 'sleeper' bins out there that I should keep an eye out for?

Thanks!
Chris C.

Chris C said:

The nikon se's seem to get reviews that are a bit less stellar than the 8x32's--how do the 8's and 10x's compare? More importantly, I'm specifically curious about how the se and e2 compare in the 10x--are the se's worth 2x's the price? (the e2's seem like a real steal...).

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Check the E2.
Good chance you will not need anything better, once you've seen it. I almost bought the 10x E2, and maybe I will some day ... they're quite expensive over here.

I have surveyed songbirds for 5 months in the western prairies with a 10x35 EII. They did the job and made me happy. Excellent binoculars.

Chris C said:

Hello all,

The Buddha says that one can't acheive happiness until one can break the cycle of attainment and disatisfaction :clap: ...I've still got the bug, I'm afraid. Oh well.

In October, I bought a pair of 8x32 trinovid bns, which are fantastically small and great optically and I'm perfectly happy with them (so I am partially enlightened, I suppose). However...I'm still atracted to the potentials of a 10x bin, especially out here in the West where many birds can be a bit distant.
I'm a get-the-best-optical-bang-for-the-buck kind of guy, so am looking around for a pair of 10x porros (I was happy with my swift audubons for years except that they were not waterproof). I'd love to spring for a pair of zeiss FLs but don't have the gick and I was also turned off by the soft edges. The only constraint beside price is eye relief. My leicas have exactly the right amount of e.r. at about 14mm. Since I've got the trinovids, these don't need to be waterproof.

The nikon se's seem to get reviews that are a bit less stellar than the 8x32's--how do the 8's and 10x's compare? More importantly, I'm specifically curious about how the se and e2 compare in the 10x--are the se's worth 2x's the price? (the e2's seem like a real steal...).

Also, are there other 'sleeper' bins out there that I should keep an eye out for?

Thanks!
Chris C.

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I have a 8x E2 and a 10x SE. I know not the direct comparison you were asking for, but I don't think optically wise theres much between the two, maybe the SE is more uniform across the field. Also remember that the E2 gives a much larger field than the SE, I think about 30% more. I think the main difference between the SE and E2 series is that the SE looks little more durable and perhaps fits the hand a little better. But all in all I'd recommend the E2, a great bin at a great price.

I recently picked up a Nikon 10 x 35 EII at an astronomy mail order house in North NJ. I was checking them out thoroughly when a salesman informed me that they were a refurbished pair and I could have them for 1/2 price. ($250.00) I bought them on the spot! They looked brand new. I have used them successfully and with great pleasure at Hawk Mountain where they really come into their own on long distance ID's. I still prefer my 8 x 30 EII's for general purpose use but I'll take the 10 x 35's over them for long distance views every time.

Bob

maybe hunt down a pair of minox 10+44 porro prisms[those new ones!],the 8+44 model has been highly rated on this site and in reviews in mags.

the only problem might be a somewhat limited field of view,the 8=44 model being allready a little closed in at 111.7m/1000m

matt

I think the SE and EII are on par optically, with minor differences. The SE is mechanically superior, however, and the EII is significantly less expensive. Both are excellent glasses, and either would satisfy a discriminating birder.

Hi Chris

I own Nikon SE 10 x 42 and now E11 8 x 30
Imho the two bins offer somewhat different options

The 10 x SE's are a precise instrument but they do seem to require very accurate eye placement for me personally that said the image certainly seems sharp practically edge to edge
At 10 x the Nikon posesses a 6 degree fov though so in comparison to the 10 x 35 E11 at 7 degrees and E11 8x at 8 .8 degress the view may seem slightly compressed
To be fair i only notice the fov thing badly if i swap from 10 to 8 and back etc
To my eyes especially short range viewing the 10 x through the SE does give a bigger object bird image once centred and again for some circumstances this can sometimes be a benefit

In a post some time back Otto Mcdiesel gave a very knowledgeable answer to one of my questions based on his own findings
Otto basically advocated the 10 x 35 E11 as easier viewing than the SE but suggested the SE optics were fractionally better its a lot of money difference for a small gain but some folk will prefer the 4.2 exit pupil of the SE and its ultimate precision
Based partially on my 8 x E11 experience i suspect that the 10 x 35 E11 will indeed actually provide an "easier" view at 10 x and if its anywhere near as relaxed to look through as my Zeiss Jena then it will be excellent
I think eye relief is around 13-14mm so i'm guessing that most users will see the full 7 degree fov though its possible perhaps some eyeglass wearers might lose a fraction depending on face shape and eyeglasses
Even losing a touch would still leave a good fov for a 10 x

Dont forget the "shake" factor at 10 x though and strangely i sometimes find that it is the balance of the binocular rather than just the weight that helps minimise shake the Zeiss Jena's (10 x 50 ) are brutes but they seem to hold ok for me
Best thing is try the E11 and SE oh and dont discount the cheaper porro's if money is key there are a whole host of reasonable price porro's still to be had like Minolta Activa,cheaper range Nikon's Pentax etc etc
Most porro's will give a good performance to price ratio

Regards
Rich

As far as a "sleeper" 10X porro is concerned, I really have a very high opinion of the Bausch and Lomb Discoverer Porro. Although discontinued, it is still available from Cabela's for $180 (it originally retailed for about $400.) They also had an 8X model, but it is sold out. I have the 10X model and have been thrilled with it. Not only is the FOV great (410 ft @ 1000 yds,) it has a very satisfying image and is waterproof, fogproof, and has a lifetime warranty. Definately a "best buy" if ever there was one.

My wife uses some 10 x 42 SEs. Other than a relatively narrow FOV, they are superb binos on a par with high end roofs optically (some might argue they are better). Interestingly, Although I prefer 8 x mag, they are remarkably easy to hold still because of their excellent ergonomics. I suggest you check out the Alula review on them available on the web where they compare very favourably with other high end 10x s.

Dave

I think eye relief is around 13-14mm

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I'd consider getting an E2 to carry around in my car, but eye relief is a big issue for me, since I wear glasses. This sounds pretty minimal.

Curtis,

Check them out for yourself, if you can. The eye relief is 14mm and is measured from the rim of the rolled down eyecup. If it were measured from the glass it would be around 16mm. I can see the whole 70 degree field with reading glasses on.

Henry

Curtis Croulet said:

I'd consider getting an E2 to carry around in my car, but eye relief is a big issue for me, since I wear glasses. This sounds pretty minimal.

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I've found that the 8x30EII works for me despite the fact that I wear glasses. I do lose a bit of the edge of the fov, but because it is so generous, the EII still gives me a wide view. I think these are very "friendly" binoculars to use, and I really enjoy them.

My glasses are for presbyopia, and I don't consider them to be very thick. Although my Zeiss 8x42 FL has good eye-relief, I must press the retracted eyecups firmly against my glasses to see the entire field. I can easily see the entire field with my Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class 8x42, but it has a much narrower apparent field than the Zeiss. It succeeds better because it attempts less. I'm leery of accepting less entire-field ability than the Zeiss provides, but I'm interested in the Nikon 8x30 E2, partly to see what the fuss is about, and because it seems I never have quite enough binoculars. With three pair in the house, they are always somewhere else when I look out the window, and none are in the car when I'm out on a non-birding expedition. The price of the E2 is attractive.

Curtis Croulet said:

My glasses are for presbyopia, and I don't consider them to be very thick. Although my Zeiss 8x42 FL has good eye-relief, I must press the retracted eyecups firmly against my glasses to see the entire field. I can easily see the entire field with my Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class 8x42, but it has a much narrower apparent field than the Zeiss. It succeeds better because it attempts less. I'm leery of accepting less entire-field ability than the Zeiss provides, but I'm interested in the Nikon 8x30 E2, partly to see what the fuss is about, and because it seems I never have quite enough binoculars. With three pair in the house, they are always somewhere else when I look out the window, and none are in the car when I'm out on a non-birding expedition. The price of the E2 is attractive.

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Curtis,

The E2 has 13.8 mm eye relief and Nikon's measurements are very good.
You will not see the entire 461' FOV with eyeglasses, however, if you roll the eyecups all the way down, you will see a large percentage of it. What you will see, perhaps FOV of 420', will amaze you because that's the sharpest part of the lens. It may not seem like much, but the difference between 390' FOV and 420' is mind altering.

Good Luck!

John

PS
Regardless of where you purchase, Nikon will repair them for $10 plus shipping. I asked Nikon about this twice and each time they told me the same thing.

Chris C said:

The Buddha says that one can't acheive happiness until one can break the cycle of attainment and disatisfaction.

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With the E2, the dissatisfaction will come when the covering begins to fall off. This won't happen with the SE.

-Adam

Blackstart said:

With the E2, the dissatisfaction will come when the covering begins to fall off. This won't happen with the SE.

-Adam

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Is it just cemented-on patches of vinyl?

Curtis Croulet said:

Is it just cemented-on patches of vinyl?

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Yes, it is.

Curtis Croulet said:

Is it just cemented-on patches of vinyl?

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It is a rubber, leatherette covering. The glue Nikon uses to attach it doesn't have much endurance. I repaired mine by partially peeling it off. I used extrafine sandpaper to roughen the bins surface then cleaned the surface with my wifes nail polish remover. I then brushed a thin layer of "Locktite" brand super glue onto the bin and carefully replaced the covering. The glue holds almost instantly. I put the bin in it's case for 24 hours and then started using it. No problems so far after 2 months use. It looks like it will continue to hold.

Bob

Blackstart said:

With the E2, the dissatisfaction will come when the covering begins to fall off. This won't happen with the SE.

-Adam

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Adam,

Good point about the E2.
Customer alterations may or may not affect how Nikon views future repairs.

John

PS
The SE covering has never been a problem.