I am lost, for I have seen the light... (1 Viewer)

oetzi · Dec 31, 2012

...after having used an Alpha for a (too short) time.

I went with a friend who had to tend her horses and used the opportunity to handle her Swarovision 10x42 (she is a birder and nature photographer since a very long time).

The "Veste Otzberg" was the object of observation with the Steiner Xtreme 8x30 and the Swaro 10x42. Here is what I found out.

In terms of sheer brightness, there is not that much of difference between the two.

The Swaro show a lot more of what I would call "micro contrast". And this made it so much better to see through. The grass showed so much more detail, for example.

The rooftops of the castle were perfect for checking CA.
The Steiner had a heap of it in center and much more on the edge. Remarkebly the Swaro wasnt CA-free in the center. Much less than the Steiner of course, but still visible and I would have expected not that much of it for the given price.

The FOV and the sharpness right to the edge was remarkably with the Swaro.
It was all there to see. (FOV can only be replaced by much more FOV, like with cylinder capacity on a motorbike)

(But I couldnt anyway. With both binos, every time I pan my eyes across the FOV towards the edge, there comes the moment when
-the outer part of the FOV first darkens and
-then turns black completely, shortening the FOV.)
What good is a wide FOV if I cant use it, other than with peripheral vision? Maybe someone can shed a light on what happened, I dont understand that sensation.)

So what is the consequence?

I am so glad to have bought a Nikon 8x30 EII and cant wait for it to appear at my doorstep.
What will I do if I were ever to buy a "bulletproof" roof? No way I will ever be able to spend "only" € 600,- like the Steiner costs (which is on loan anyway) and be happy with it.|=(|

brocknroller · Jan 1, 2013

oetzi said:
...after having used an Alpha for a (too short) time.

I went with a friend who had to tend her horses and used the opportunity to handle her Swarovision 10x42 (she is a birder and nature photographer since a very long time).

The "Veste Otzberg" was the object of observation with the Steiner Xtreme 8x30 and the Swaro 10x42. Here is what I found out.

In terms of sheer brightness, there is not that much of difference between the two.

The Swaro show a lot more of what I would call "micro contrast". And this made it so much better to see through. The grass showed so much more detail, for example.

The rooftops of the castle were perfect for checking CA.
The Steiner had a heap of it in center and much more on the edge. Remarkebly the Swaro wasnt CA-free in the center. Much less than the Steiner of course, but still visible and I would have expected not that much of it for the given price.

The FOV and the sharpness right to the edge was remarkably with the Swaro.
It was all there to see. (FOV can only be replaced by much more FOV, like with cylinder capacity on a motorbike)

(But I couldnt anyway. With both binos, every time I pan my eyes across the FOV towards the edge, there comes the moment when
-the outer part of the FOV first darkens and
-then turns black completely, shortening the FOV.)
What good is a wide FOV if I cant use it, other than with peripheral vision? Maybe someone can shed a light on what happened, I dont understand that sensation.)

So what is the consequence?

I am so glad to have bought a Nikon 8x30 EII and cant wait for it to appear at my doorstep.
What will I do if I were ever to buy a "bulletproof" roof? No way I will ever be able to spend "only" € 600,- like the Steiner costs (which is on loan anyway) and be happy with it.|=(|

oetzi,

you're not the first person to ask the question about the SV EL - what good are its sharp edges if you can't see them w/out "image blackouts"? Same applies to the Nikon SE.

With the SE, I find I can see the edges if I sneak up on them rather than quickly dart my eyes to the edges. The image blackouts with the SE are caused by spherical aberration of the exit pupil:

http://www.handprint.com/ASTRO/ae4.html#SAEP

Not sure what's going on with the SV EL.

I think you will enjoy the 8x30 EII very much and find you can move your eyes around the field with less chance of image blackouts, although I still get them if I dart my eyes laterally to the edges. If you are getting the black body version, I think you will find it has plenty of "micro contrast" though CA is probably more noticeably than the 10x42 SV EL, because of the EII's wider FOV. CA worsens as you look toward the edges and the more FOV, the more CA you will see. But on-axis it's rather low though. You will notice it mostly in high contrast situations such as tree branches against a bright, cloudy sky.

Here's what you would have seen if you had been looking through a good spotting scope:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Veste_Otzberg_201.jpg

<B>

ronh · Jan 1, 2013

A wide field of view, even though only seen by the peripheral vision, is very useful for getting on a target quickly, or getting on a moving target. It also provides a pleasant viewing experience, in which the user does not feel so much that he is looking through tubes, but more like the open view seen by naked eye.

Since wide field edges are difficult to view without blackouts, for me the SV's impressive edge sharpness is not very useful. But a wide field is very nice, even if the edges are blurry, as long as the blurring does not bother "YOU". I have not used an EII, but is is reputedly very strong in the wide field but blurry edge department. It should prove interesting in that sense. Enviable choice, wish they were available in the US.
Ron

oetzi · Jan 1, 2013

Thank you for the explanations, now I know what is always meant with "kidney beans".
The link is great!

brocknroller · Jan 1, 2013

ronh said:
A wide field of view, even though only seen by the peripheral vision, is very useful for getting on a target quickly, or getting on a moving target. It also provides a pleasant viewing experience, in which the user does not feel so much that he is looking through tubes, but more like the open view seen by naked eye.

Since wide field edges are difficult to view without blackouts, for me the SV's impressive edge sharpness is not very useful. But a wide field is very nice, even if the edges are blurry, as long as the blurring does not bother "YOU". I have not used an EII, but is is reputedly very strong in the wide field but blurry edge department. It should prove interesting in that sense. Enviable choice, wish they were available in the US.
Ron

I guess I got a "cherry" because with my 8x30 EII, I have to take an object to the edge of the field to get it out of focus. The "zone of critical sharpness" is about 75% from center, but the fall off is so gradual after that point that the image is still very usable almost to the edge.

I did have another sample, and the edges weren't as sharp in one barrel although the other side was just as good as my second sample. Mooreorless has my first sample now. I suspect one side is slightly out of collimation, because viewing at close range for a while gives me eyestrain. Steve's a bit cross eyed so he tends not to notice this.

<B>

NDhunter · Jan 2, 2013

oetzi said:
...after having used an Alpha for a (too short) time.

I went with a friend who had to tend her horses and used the opportunity to handle her Swarovision 10x42 (she is a birder and nature photographer since a very long time).

The "Veste Otzberg" was the object of observation with the Steiner Xtreme 8x30 and the Swaro 10x42. Here is what I found out.

In terms of sheer brightness, there is not that much of difference between the two.

The Swaro show a lot more of what I would call "micro contrast". And this made it so much better to see through. The grass showed so much more detail, for example.

The rooftops of the castle were perfect for checking CA.
The Steiner had a heap of it in center and much more on the edge. Remarkebly the Swaro wasnt CA-free in the center. Much less than the Steiner of course, but still visible and I would have expected not that much of it for the given price.

The FOV and the sharpness right to the edge was remarkably with the Swaro.
It was all there to see. (FOV can only be replaced by much more FOV, like with cylinder capacity on a motorbike)

(But I couldnt anyway. With both binos, every time I pan my eyes across the FOV towards the edge, there comes the moment when
-the outer part of the FOV first darkens and
-then turns black completely, shortening the FOV.)
What good is a wide FOV if I cant use it, other than with peripheral vision? Maybe someone can shed a light on what happened, I dont understand that sensation.)

So what is the consequence?

I am so glad to have bought a Nikon 8x30 EII and cant wait for it to appear at my doorstep.
What will I do if I were ever to buy a "bulletproof" roof? No way I will ever be able to spend "only" € 600,- like the Steiner costs (which is on loan anyway) and be happy with it.|=(|

Oetzi:

Good to hear about your comparisons with the SV and the Steiner.
Good binoculars both, and it looks like you don't wear eyeglasses.
The Swarovision, has eyecups with 3 stops, so you can with some
experience find the place that works best for you, and so blackouts
should not be an issue.

The Steiner has individual focusing eyepieces, and with a foldown
eyecup, and they have a very nicely designed wing, that works well
to block side lighting, and folds down easily.
These would be harder to adjust to prevent blackouts, but with use,
you should be able to adapt. With glasses, you need to fold them
down.

If you spent some more time with both, you would get used to them,
and could appreciate the differences, which are many.

Jerry

oetzi · Jan 2, 2013

Blackouts by moving the eyes around are inssue with every binocular I tried so far. With some binos I have this problem when trying to center them on my eyes, then I know that we are not made for each other.

The Steiner fits my eyes and hands perfectly, especially the eyecups feel rigth at home in my face. But the IF has some disadvantages for me. With tired eyes (say, after half a day in front of a monitor) I would have to re-adjust the otherwise fine focus for maximum sharpness. So you need stronger (and younger?) eyes for this IF-way.

With the Swarovski I must admit that I dont like the design. Open bridge is nice to hold and everything, but a classic binocular, like the Zeiss Victory 8x32 FL (currently on sale for € 1300,-, sigh!) is a beauty in itself. Hey, I even like the design of a classic Porro!

CharleyBird · Jan 5, 2013

Seems an unequal comparison, the 10x42 swaro retailing at about £1600 compared to the steiner 8x30 at about £400 I think.

Steiner do an equivalent model, the Discovery 10x44 retailing at about £1100. It's rather good.

Enjoy your Nikons, they make great bins, very robust kit generally from what I've seen.

oetzi · Jan 5, 2013

No comparison,just getting a feeling for different binoculars in very different price brackets.
The gain in image quality is very much visible, but, alas, not with the factor 3.5, as is the price.
My Nikon is nearly there, only a matter of days:king:

I am lost, for I have seen the light... (1 Viewer)

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