No-hopers ? (1 Viewer)

OK here's a bit of fun. There's a bunch of birds that I'm pretty sure aren't recognised by any authorities as species (I could be wrong !), but I've somehow managed to pencil in as putative splits due to either Chinese/Daurian/Turkestan whispers, or due to them being possibly archaically split by some.

I'd love to know any recent opinions on these, especially if they're now unanimously considered no-hopers so I can give up on them altogether as ever being seen as species in my lifetime. Any ideas shared would make me happy !

I'll just use English names here,cos you'll likely know what I mean, but do ask if scientific ones would help !

Puna Rhea (from Lesser Rhea)
White-breasted Cormorant (from Great Cormorant)
Purple Swamphen into several species
Sri Lankan Stilt (!?!)
Cayenne Tern ..(Oooooo)
Admirable Hummingbird from (Magnificent Hummingbird)
Southern Pied Hornbill (from Oriental Pied)
Iberian Woodpecker (from Green)
Buff-browed Spinetail (from Azara's)
Black-eared Wheatear into (Eastern and Western)
Lead-collared Bushtit (from Bushtit)
Black-backed Fairy-Wren (from Superb F-W)
Spotted Scrubwren from (White-browed)
The splitting of Spotted and Striated Pardalottes into a few spp
Lilian's Meadowlark (from Eastern)

Thanks in advance for any time anyone might want to spend answering any of these ! Any info might help others too !

For Sandwich tern, did you see the id essay in http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/idsandwichcayennetern.html? This might help you decide for yourself if you think this is a valid potential split.

I thougth I saw a paper a while back with info on the Meadowlarks, but dont have it available right now.

Niels

Larry,
As i recall Buff -browed wes relumped with Azara's Spinetail.
I don't think there has been any movement on the plitting of the Iberian Woodpecker.
Swift

Iberian Woodpecker, Eastern and Western Black-eared Wheatear and the several Purple Swamphens are recognised by the Dutch systematics committee, as well as Turkestan/Daurian/Chinese Shrike. I think most of these were on morphology only though, but Iberian Woodpecker looks likely to be a good call to me.

Jaramillo (in Birds of Chile) splits the Puna Rhea with the remark that research should show if they are really that different – Puna Rhea is highly threatened.

Hi Larry,

Perhaps Jaramillo is overly hopeful for the Puna Rhea, though personally I would hope that a sound basis could be found for splitting it - might help to save what is probably better considered a race until hard evidence is found that it is not.

Phalacrocorax lucidus has been split on the latest Roberts List, so we will have to wait and see what the new editions of Clements and Howard & Moore do with it.

It has been known for some time that as currently treated Porphyrio porphyrio is polyphyletic. I have not heard that anyone is currently reviewing the whole species, and it will probably be done piecemeal. The Roberts list has split madagascariensis. Also to keep an eye out for what will eventually be done with races such as pulverulentus, melanotus, bellus, the indicus group with viridis, and the poliocephalus group with caspius and seistanicus. Also in further need of delucidation is the relationship of melanotus with bellus and samoensis.

Sri Lankan Stilt - forget it - won't happen in my view, just too much overlap with the nominate. I think this one, and the S African birds wanting to be split from the nominate are more or less wishful thinking.

Cayenne Tern - this one is still up in the air. The SACC baseline list still has not pronounced on it that I know of. The Restall Birds of Northern South America have split it with reserve, but this may also be wishful thinking. My sense is that eurygnatha will probably remain with sandvicensis and that there may be perhaps constitution of a new race within race eurygnatha separating the South American breeding populations from the Caribbean populations.

Admirable Hummingbird. HBW says it may be a good species. Wells List splits it but no one else. Studies need to be done and until that time it should remain with fulgens.

As far as I know race convexus of Anthracoceros albirostris will remain with the nominate until there is some type of proof (which there is not that I know of) that there exists a condition of sympatry of the two races without ensuing hybridization.

Iberian Woodpecker - Personally, I don't even think that vaillantii is other than a race of viridis. I haven't seen anything (and that is not to say that proof does not exist) that shows that sharpei differs enough to warrant separation.

The Buff-browed Spinetail has been relumped for good reason that I will omit for brevity with Azara's.

Lead-collared Bushtit - this is one that I really don't know what you are talking about. I presume you are speaking of the more southerly races of the species having black ear coverts. A split was attempted some years ago and then a study came out that basically showed that the plumage differences were clinal. It would be however interesting to know if anyone has attempted to do an artificial cross with saturatus and melanotis - very few cases of true ring species, and geography prevents the two races from ever normally meeting, but who knows if they would breed. In any case, my sense is that this is one politypic species.

Black-backed Fairywren - have no information that anyone thinks it other than a race of the Superb.

cuckooroller said:

Lead-collared Bushtit - this is one that I really don't know what you are talking about. I presume you are speaking of the more southerly races of the species having black ear coverts. A split was attempted some years ago and then a study came out that basically showed that the plumage differences were clinal. It would be however interesting to know if anyone has attempted to do an artificial cross with saturatus and melanotis - very few cases of true ring species, and geography prevents the two races from ever normally meeting, but who knows if they would breed. In any case, my sense is that this is one politypic species.

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Re a potential Bushtit split. I think Larry's referring to the gray-faced "plumbeus" group of interior western North America, the so-called Plumbeus or Lead-colored Bushtit. "Lead-collared" is a mistake in Clements for "Lead-colored".

Thanks fugl, you are right.

Thanks folks, esp for the detailed response from Steve.

I meant Splendid, not Superb Fairy Wren btw (oops), the melanotus form. If that makes a difference. Interesting note on the Bushtit spelling !

The paper I mentioned above was by Hebert et al 2004: Identification of birds through DNA barcodes, (available online in PLOS Biology). In this paper they identified 4 species in North America with subgroups that differed as much at the DNA level as species otherwise differed. These were Eastern Meadowlark, Marsh Wren, Warbling Vireo and Solitary Sandpiper; the first three of these had previously been suggested for splitting.

Niels

njlarsen said:

The paper I mentioned above was by Hebert et al 2004: Identification of birds through DNA barcodes, (available online in PLOS Biology). In this paper they identified 4 species in North America with subgroups that differed as much at the DNA level as species otherwise differed. These were Eastern Meadowlark, Marsh Wren, Warbling Vireo and Solitary Sandpiper; the first three of these had previously been suggested for splitting.

Niels

Click to expand...

Interesting. I didn't even realise Solitary Sandpiper wasn't monotypic.