Johanna in Johanna's Sunbird, was the wife of ...!? (1 Viewer)

Björn Bergenholtz · Sep 14, 2013

One good thing of going astray, like in the "Beaudouin-thread":http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=266467
... is that you suddenly stumbles upon someting unexpected!

Like this: Johanna's Sunbird (Nectarinia) Cinnyris johannae J. VERREAUX & E. VERREAUX. 1851 commemorates the wife of Edouard Verreaux, and not of his brother Jules as is often stated!? The specie was described by the two brothers jointly and I think, to say the least, that they ought to know to whom they were married!?

See excerpt from the type description: Verreaux, J & E Verreaux. 1851. Cinnyris Johannæ (s.314-315). Description d´espèces nouvelles, rare ou peu connous, d'oiseaux du Gabon (Afrique occidentale). Revue et magasin de zoologie pure et appliquée. 2e Série, Tome III: 306 -317.

But it doesn´t tell us if her name really was Johanna (!?) ... or Jeanne or Joanna, like the older (French) name Souimanga de Jeanne or (English) Madame Joanna Verreaux's Sunbird indicates!?

Björn Bergenholtz · Oct 11, 2013

Still in the dark ...

From below ...

Calalp said:
... But it doesn´t tell us if her name really was Johanna (!?) ... or Jeanne or Joanna, like the older (French) name Souimanga de Jeanne or (English) Madame Joanna Verreaux's Sunbird indicates!?

Does anyone know for sure?

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 14, 2014

A Last attempt ...

Nothing "new" on "... madame Ed. Verreaux" = Johanna/Jeanne/Joanna Verreaux?

Or do we have to accept that we know absolutely nothing about her?

Not even, for sure, her first name ...

Zheljko · Apr 14, 2014

Maybe J. Verreaux is actually Johanna?

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 14, 2014

Good try,

... and, Radical thinking (I like that), but no ... sorry!

See attached file (link to full volume here)

Any other good suggestions?

Björn Bergenholtz · Mar 17, 2015

Jeanne's sunbird?

When Laurent yesterday posted the following short (but clever) remark (in the thread emiliae from de Dalmas):

l_raty said:
Johanna is certainly a pretty standard latinization of Jeanne.

… I came to think of this old abandoned thread and still unsolved eponym.

Anyone who have found anything further, whatever small or large, of Mrs. Edouards Verreaux?

PS. Note that Jobling nowadays, in the HBW Alive Key, explain this eponym as follow:

johannae
● Jeanne Verreaux (fl. 1851) wife of French natural history dealer Edouard Verreaux (Cinnyris).

Taphrospilus · Mar 17, 2015

I only know that she still lived when Édouard Verreaux died in year 1868. This is due to the following article

Martial Étienne Mulsant: Notice sur Édouard Verreaux in Notices et Portraits. H. Georg, Lyon 1879, S. 139–145

A reprint you can find also here.

From this article you can read that Verreaux isn't really the author of Mulsants "Histoire naturelle des oiseaux-mouches, ou, Colibris constituant la famille des trochilidés". Mulsant only mentioned him as co-author as the widow gave him access to the hummingbird collection of Verreaux.

That she still lived you can read on page 228 of the link. But no help on the name. There is written...

Taphrospilus · Mar 17, 2015

Henriette Jeanne né Bodier is the wife you are looking for.

l_raty · Mar 17, 2015

Original [here] (browse to #3 of 34).
She was born on 21 Nov 1826 ([here], #45 of 101). I looked for her death as well, but failed to find it (she may have moved, or she remarried and her name changed).

Taphrospilus · Mar 17, 2015

As Édouard Verreaux died in 4e Arrondissement I could as well only find a Henriette Gabrielle Verreaux which died 14 March 1874. See 13 of 21 . Maybe a daughter?

alcedo.atthis · Mar 17, 2015

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...FAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Madame Verreaux&f=false

Regards

Malky

Björn Bergenholtz · Mar 17, 2015

Thank´s guys!

And an extra applause to Laurent, for posting that remark yesterday, re-awakening this slumbering thread now suddenly expanding our (at least my) knowledge of Mrs. Verreaux!

Thereby; Johanna's Sunbird (Nectarinia) Cinnyris johannae is apparently commemorating Jeanne Verreaux (1826–fl.1868*), whose full name was Henriette Jeanne Verreaux, born Bodier, wife of the French ornithologist and Natural specimen dealer (Baptiste) Édouard Verreaux, whom she married the 20th of January 1846.

*Born 21 November 1826 … and still alive when her husband passed away in 1868.

That´s far, far more than we knew before!

Well done!

:t:

Maybe time to reconsider the Common name!?

---
PS. "Malky", if you read the full thread you will see that The Eponym Dictionary of Birds is (once again) proven wrong!
x

alcedo.atthis · Mar 18, 2015

"PS. "Malky", if you read the full thread you will see that The Eponym Dictionary of Birds is (once again) proven wrong!"

Interesting comment. So they are not the same husband and wife? This French custom of using/recording names, it can certainly confuse some individuals.

Regards

Taphrospilus · Feb 2, 2021

Taphrospilus said:
As Édouard Verreaux died in 4e Arrondissement I could as well only find a Henriette Gabrielle Verreaux which died 14 March 1874. See 13 of 21 . Maybe a daughter?

After I have seen her death record here p. 14 of 31 I think no relationship as Varreaux and not Verreaux. Anyway there is a good chance that she married again if she was only 39 when Edouard Verreaux died

Taphrospilus · Feb 9, 2021

I ask myself from here where this information came from.

A la muerte de Édouard Verreaux en 1868, su viuda fue liquidanado la existencias, cuyo valor fue estimando en unos 500.000 francos. La Maison Verreaux cerró en 1899.

Who closed the Maison Verreaux in 1899? And to whom sold Henriette Jeanne Verreaux the store?

P.S. Interesting as well the story about Elisabeth Greef.

PScofield · Feb 9, 2021

Jeanne Bodier
Death	22 août 1880 (22 Aug 1880) Boulogne Billancourt

No guarantee this is the right woman but the surname is not common. I agree the English name be changed to Jeanne's Hummingbird.

Björn Bergenholtz · Feb 10, 2021

Paul, did you find any connection to Verreaux, as well?

Or; why not just a namesake?

How uncommon the surname Bodier is, or was, or not, I cannot tell (read; I have'nt got a clue), though at least here there seems to be a few of them, all in Paris.

Even if no " Henriette Jeanne ... " (at least not that I can spot).

Take it for what it's worth.

B

Taphrospilus · Feb 10, 2021

PScofield said:
Boulogne Billancourt

Here p. 15 of 156. Unfortunaly no full record to find. But if you search here you will find a couple more Jeanne Bodiers, or Jeanne Verreauxs.

Björn Bergenholtz · Feb 10, 2021

Taphrospilus said:
Who closed the Maison Verreaux in 1899? And to whom sold Henriette Jeanne Verreaux the store?

Sorry, Martin, I don't know the exact answers to those questions ...

Though, if the Maison Verreaux (firm/shop) was closed in "1899", and if she (herself) sold the store, I find it hard to believe that she could have been responsible for either one of those occurrences, if she had died in "1880" ...

🙄

/B

Taphrospilus · Feb 10, 2021

She could have sold after the death of Édouard and the store was still known under the name Maison Verreaux. But the answer may here

Piotr Daszkiewicz The decline and closure of Maison Verreaux as indicated by Władysław Taczanowski's letters, Archives of Natural History 44(1), pp. 130–133

Johanna in Johanna's Sunbird, was the wife of ...!? (1 Viewer)

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