gareth_blockley
Smile people
In my bird guide 'collins' it says that willow tits do not come to feeders whereas marsh tits do quite freely. Is this rule set in stone? If so can it be a definate way of identifying a bird at a feeder?
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
marsh tit vs. willow tit (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gareth_blockley
- Start date
dan pointon
Can't Stop
gareth_blockley said:
Doubtful, i'd imagine there's always some variation. Perhaps it's getting at the fact that Marsh Tit are more likely to visit them? Best way I find is to look for the pale wing panel on Willow Tit, formed by the pale edges of the secondaries. If the bird's on a feeder that should be easy enough to see.
Last edited:
Mike Richardson
Formerly known as Skink1978
As far as I know both Willow and Marsh Tit come to feeders. Like Dan says, Marsh may be more likely to visit, especially in gardens. I'm almost positive Willow Tits are regular at the feeding station at Potteric Carr (South Yorkshire).
Adey Baker
Member
I've seen Willow Tits regularly at feeders - mind you, the feeders have been in their regular areas so that might have something to do with it!
IanF
Moderator
My experience is that they both visit feeders as freely as each other. They're so variable that I find relying on just one feature isn't enough - the different call is the dead giveaway - though I seldom hear them calling at feeding stations. You have to take into account the pale wing panel, bib size, bull neck, glossy/dull cap and general tidiniess of the bird and even then it's not always that easy!!!
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
This is, it seems, the deliberate mistake in Collins. Willow Tits come to feeders at Potteric as Mike says and also Fairburn Ings, Old Moor, and a least 2 south Leeds gardens.
I guess you saw http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=72210 for a lengthy discussion of the other differences?
Graham
I guess you saw http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=72210 for a lengthy discussion of the other differences?
Graham
Steven Astley
Well-known member
Willow tits come to feeders, I get them at mine annually usually in late summer they like sunflower seeds.
Also get them at Moore NR and Pennington flash.
Also get them at Moore NR and Pennington flash.
wolfbirder
Well-known member
I find these two exteremly difficult to i.d. Just when I think I have mastered this I struggle. As someone else said inividual birds are so variable, call to me is the only reliable way. Both marsh and willow tiits regularly visit the feeder at Aqualate, and even with such a good opportunity to see them, everyone finds it very hard.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
Both readily come to feeders, and both will come to gardens if they're in their flock area or adjoining a territory. They are especially fond of black sunflower seeds, not so keen on peanuts, and there seems to be no difference with either species being more likely than another to come to them. The only difference is opportunity - in many places in England now (and Scotland), there aren't any Willow Tits left to come to a feeder.
re identification, see the other threads that have dealt with this exhaustively. Call is not a failsafe id feature, especially in winter as single birds at eg feeders or in tit flocks don't call much. The hardest situation to deal with is a single bird eg coming to a garden where neither are usualyl seen. If you post a picture though, we'll soon get it sorted. With lots of experience they're not too difficult, but if you're not familiar with one or both then they can be one of the hardest species pairs in Britian.
re identification, see the other threads that have dealt with this exhaustively. Call is not a failsafe id feature, especially in winter as single birds at eg feeders or in tit flocks don't call much. The hardest situation to deal with is a single bird eg coming to a garden where neither are usualyl seen. If you post a picture though, we'll soon get it sorted. With lots of experience they're not too difficult, but if you're not familiar with one or both then they can be one of the hardest species pairs in Britian.
gareth_blockley
Smile people
Thanks for your views.
With good veiws I have pretty much mastered identifying by sight and have nailed the calls.
I was just interested that the guide would write this so matter of fact, and its not like its an old one or out of date.
This point could confuse a novice or inexperienced birder.
With good veiws I have pretty much mastered identifying by sight and have nailed the calls.
I was just interested that the guide would write this so matter of fact, and its not like its an old one or out of date.
This point could confuse a novice or inexperienced birder.
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
gareth_blockley said:
It confused this inexperienced birder, and hopefully will be removed from the revised edition. It's a shame, because these behavioural pointers are one of Collins real strengths. See the entry regarding the "camouflage flight" of the Merlin - wonderful description of amazing behaviour.
Graham
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
There is quite a lot of outdated opinion on marsh and willow tit, as the former hasn't been properly studied in Britain for over 50 years (and that by an amateur ornithologist rather than a scientist), and latter never fully comprehensively. There are more recent studies from other countries, but the British races are likely to be a bit different from others.
i saw a big 2-page spread by Vinicombe in Birdwatch magazine about 18 months ago, in which he repeated some of the old chestnuts. One is that fledgling marsh tits are almost silent, which is a good id feature when compared with noisy willow tits. Complete rubbish. BWP has propogated some of these, which are now being unravelled a bit. Much of it in BWP holds basically true though, but the details are being sorted out.
Behaviourly, there's not much difference between the two species though. They both have similar strategies and behaviour - both store food, both like 'margins' (eg woodland edge, areas around paths/water etc), both are pretty sedentary, both come to gardens and feeders, both are usually seen in pairs or very small numbers, often in tit flocks. The only major behaviour difference is that willow excavate their own nest hole in rotten wood. However, marsh will often clean out and enlarge a nest hole, or take over a willow tit hole, so that can be confusing.
They are both under study at the moment though, and new work is starting to come out.
i saw a big 2-page spread by Vinicombe in Birdwatch magazine about 18 months ago, in which he repeated some of the old chestnuts. One is that fledgling marsh tits are almost silent, which is a good id feature when compared with noisy willow tits. Complete rubbish. BWP has propogated some of these, which are now being unravelled a bit. Much of it in BWP holds basically true though, but the details are being sorted out.
Behaviourly, there's not much difference between the two species though. They both have similar strategies and behaviour - both store food, both like 'margins' (eg woodland edge, areas around paths/water etc), both are pretty sedentary, both come to gardens and feeders, both are usually seen in pairs or very small numbers, often in tit flocks. The only major behaviour difference is that willow excavate their own nest hole in rotten wood. However, marsh will often clean out and enlarge a nest hole, or take over a willow tit hole, so that can be confusing.
They are both under study at the moment though, and new work is starting to come out.
Similar threads
