Andrew Rowlands
Well-known member
What parentage does the bird #4 in your post-4765181 have?
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2025 7 March undefined buteo bahariye island eyüpsultan. Behavior and characteristics of the undefined buteo bird (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter salih
- Start date
jogresh
Bimble and patch
But B. vulpinus don't breed in the southern hemisphere - because they've only just finished breeding.
Actually in South Africa there is a so called Cape Mistery Buzzard in Cape province, a small breeding population of reddish Buzzards now supposed to be B.b.vulpinus x B.trizonatus hybrids. I don't have recent publications about it.
Still, the whole analyse of extremely variable characters of this 'mistery' Bosphorus Buteo is just ... yes, lets call it bull💩
The recent Field Guide to Birds of Greater Southern Africa says under Common Buzzard Buteo buteo race vulpinus (Steppe Buzzard)
There's also this very old link.
@Mike Earp , I have the same information, old, no updates and just the hypothesis of hybrids or simply vulpinus breeding down there (as do White Storks, Booted Eagle a.o.)
Last edited:
And if you want to get completely confused, please read this 
2015
Résumé
South Africa is traditionally known to play host to two taxa of small Buteo, the endemic and uncommon Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus, and Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, an abundant Palearctic migrant. Since the late 1970s and early 1980s, a number of buzzards appearing unlike B. trizonatus have been found breeding in the south-west Cape, particularly on the Cape Peninsula and in and around the Elgin Valley, ca.60km east of Cape Town. Some of these buzzards resemble B. b. vulpinus, whilst others appear atypical of both B. trizonatus and B. b. vulpinus. This study conducted genetic and morphological analyses on a number of buzzards sampled in the south-west Cape, and compared them with three candidate taxa considered most likely to, in full or in part, explain the identity of these ‘mystery’ buzzards. The candidate taxa were: Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, Ménétries’s Buzzard B. b. menetriesi and Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus. Morphology data and genetic samples were collected from 23 buzzards through capture with a Bal-Chatri trap, from chicks in nests, from captive birds brought to rehabilitation centres or from birds found dead. The comparative morphology of the buzzards sampled in the Cape was determined by constructing a Discriminant Component Analysis using 9 morphometric characters which had previously been established as being important in the separation of Old World Buteo taxa (Kruckenhauser et al., 2004). Blood samples were then analysed using 18 polymorphic microsatellite loci designed for Buteo swainsoni (Hull et al., 2007), using the program STRUCTURE 2.3 to analyse the population assignment of the sampled buzzards. The majority of buzzards were found to most closely match B. trizonatus or B. b. vulpinus in their morphology (52%), and their genetic signature (65%). Additionally, two unidentified genetic signatures were evident. One of these signatures remains unresolved, because buzzards with this genetic signature lacked morphological data. The second signature, however, was displayed by buzzards with larger morphology than is known from both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Based on previous research these larger buzzards lay most closely within the morphospace of B. b. menetriesi, being far removed from the morphospace of both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Thus, it is conceivable that some of the birds belong to this taxon.
The identity, origin and impact of a 'new' buzzard species breeding in South Africa
Master Thesis2015
URI
http://hdl.handle.net/11427/15526Authors
Gwynn, LisleÉditeur
University of Cape TownRésumé
South Africa is traditionally known to play host to two taxa of small Buteo, the endemic and uncommon Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus, and Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, an abundant Palearctic migrant. Since the late 1970s and early 1980s, a number of buzzards appearing unlike B. trizonatus have been found breeding in the south-west Cape, particularly on the Cape Peninsula and in and around the Elgin Valley, ca.60km east of Cape Town. Some of these buzzards resemble B. b. vulpinus, whilst others appear atypical of both B. trizonatus and B. b. vulpinus. This study conducted genetic and morphological analyses on a number of buzzards sampled in the south-west Cape, and compared them with three candidate taxa considered most likely to, in full or in part, explain the identity of these ‘mystery’ buzzards. The candidate taxa were: Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, Ménétries’s Buzzard B. b. menetriesi and Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus. Morphology data and genetic samples were collected from 23 buzzards through capture with a Bal-Chatri trap, from chicks in nests, from captive birds brought to rehabilitation centres or from birds found dead. The comparative morphology of the buzzards sampled in the Cape was determined by constructing a Discriminant Component Analysis using 9 morphometric characters which had previously been established as being important in the separation of Old World Buteo taxa (Kruckenhauser et al., 2004). Blood samples were then analysed using 18 polymorphic microsatellite loci designed for Buteo swainsoni (Hull et al., 2007), using the program STRUCTURE 2.3 to analyse the population assignment of the sampled buzzards. The majority of buzzards were found to most closely match B. trizonatus or B. b. vulpinus in their morphology (52%), and their genetic signature (65%). Additionally, two unidentified genetic signatures were evident. One of these signatures remains unresolved, because buzzards with this genetic signature lacked morphological data. The second signature, however, was displayed by buzzards with larger morphology than is known from both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Based on previous research these larger buzzards lay most closely within the morphospace of B. b. menetriesi, being far removed from the morphospace of both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Thus, it is conceivable that some of the birds belong to this taxon.
sp. Could the buteo bird be a hybrid of two hybrid buteos? Because I looked at both buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus photos, although they do not completely match, there are certain features that match, but the v shape in the body is only a feature of buteo trizonatus.I think it is a hybrid of Buteo trizonatus X buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus. It is interesting that when I look at the photos, it carries the characteristics of both species.And if you want to get completely confused, please read this
The identity, origin and impact of a 'new' buzzard species breeding in South Africa
Master Thesis
2015
URI
http://hdl.handle.net/11427/15526
Authors
Gwynn, Lisle
Éditeur
University of Cape Town
Résumé
South Africa is traditionally known to play host to two taxa of small Buteo, the endemic and uncommon Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus, and Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, an abundant Palearctic migrant. Since the late 1970s and early 1980s, a number of buzzards appearing unlike B. trizonatus have been found breeding in the south-west Cape, particularly on the Cape Peninsula and in and around the Elgin Valley, ca.60km east of Cape Town. Some of these buzzards resemble B. b. vulpinus, whilst others appear atypical of both B. trizonatus and B. b. vulpinus. This study conducted genetic and morphological analyses on a number of buzzards sampled in the south-west Cape, and compared them with three candidate taxa considered most likely to, in full or in part, explain the identity of these ‘mystery’ buzzards. The candidate taxa were: Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, Ménétries’s Buzzard B. b. menetriesi and Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus. Morphology data and genetic samples were collected from 23 buzzards through capture with a Bal-Chatri trap, from chicks in nests, from captive birds brought to rehabilitation centres or from birds found dead. The comparative morphology of the buzzards sampled in the Cape was determined by constructing a Discriminant Component Analysis using 9 morphometric characters which had previously been established as being important in the separation of Old World Buteo taxa (Kruckenhauser et al., 2004). Blood samples were then analysed using 18 polymorphic microsatellite loci designed for Buteo swainsoni (Hull et al., 2007), using the program STRUCTURE 2.3 to analyse the population assignment of the sampled buzzards. The majority of buzzards were found to most closely match B. trizonatus or B. b. vulpinus in their morphology (52%), and their genetic signature (65%). Additionally, two unidentified genetic signatures were evident. One of these signatures remains unresolved, because buzzards with this genetic signature lacked morphological data. The second signature, however, was displayed by buzzards with larger morphology than is known from both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Based on previous research these larger buzzards lay most closely within the morphospace of B. b. menetriesi, being far removed from the morphospace of both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Thus, it is conceivable that some of the birds belong to this taxon.
species breeding in South Africa
Master Thesis
2015
URI
Authors
Gwynn, Lisle
Éditeur
University of Cape Town
Résumé
South Africa is traditionally known to play host to two taxa of small Buteo, the endemic and uncommon Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus, and Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, an abundant Palearctic migrant. Since the late 1970s and early 1980s, a number of buzzards appearing unlike B. trizonatus have been found breeding in the south-west Cape, particularly on the Cape Peninsula and in and around the Elgin Valley, ca.60km east of Cape Town. Some of these buzzards resemble B. b. vulpinus, whilst others appear atypical of both B. trizonatus and B. b. vulpinus. This study conducted genetic and morphological analyses on a number of buzzards sampled in the south-west Cape, and compared them with three candidate taxa considered most likely to, in full or in part, explain the identity of these ‘mystery’ buzzards. The candidate taxa were: Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus, Ménétries’s Buzzard B. b. menetriesi and Forest Buzzard B. trizonatus. Morphology data and genetic samples were collected from 23 buzzards through capture with a Bal-Chatri trap, from chicks in nests, from captive birds brought to rehabilitation centres or from birds found dead. The comparative morphology of the buzzards sampled in the Cape was determined by constructing a Discriminant Component Analysis using 9 morphometric characters which had previously been established as being important in the separation of Old World Buteo taxa (Kruckenhauser et al., 2004). Blood samples were then analysed using 18 polymorphic microsatellite loci designed for Buteo swainsoni (Hull et al., 2007), using the program STRUCTURE 2.3 to analyse the population assignment of the sampled buzzards. The majority of buzzards were found to most closely match B. trizonatus or B. b. vulpinus in their morphology (52%), and their genetic signature (65%). Additionally, two unidentified genetic signatures were evident. One of these signatures remains unresolved, because buzzards with this genetic signature lacked morphological data. The second signature, however, was displayed by buzzards with larger morphology than is known from both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Based on previous research these larger buzzards lay most closely within the morphospace of B. b. menetriesi, being far removed from the morphospace of both B. b. vulpinus and B. trizonatus. Thus, it is conceivable that some of the birds belong to this taxon.
Click to expand...sp. Could the buteo bird be a hybrid of two hybrid buteos? Because I looked at both buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus photos, although they do not completely match, there are certain features that match, but the v shape in the body is only a feature of buteo trizonatus.I think it is a hybrid of Buteo trizonatus X buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus. It is interesting that when I look at the photos, it carries the characteristics of both species
sp. Could the buteo bird be a hybrid of two hybrid buteos? Because I looked at both buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus photos, although they do not completely match, there are certain features that match, but the v shape in the body is only a feature of buteo trizonatus.I think it is a hybrid of Buteo trizonatus X buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus. It is interesting that when I look at the photos, it carries the characteristics of both species.
sp. Could the buteo bird be a hybrid of two hybrid buteos? Because I looked at both buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus photos, although they do not completely match, there are certain features that match, but the v shape in the body is only a feature of buteo trizonatus.I think it is a hybrid of Buteo trizonatus X buteo rufinusX buteo vulpinus. It is interesting that when I look at the photos, it carries the characteristics of both species.
dwatsonbirder
Well-known member
What a curious thread...
Salih, the best course of action would be to submit your sighting along with your notes (including a link to this thread for balance) to the national records committee and await the outcome of their findings. Whilst you are at it you may as well submit your Forster's tern record too. The outcome will be the same for both.
Salih, the best course of action would be to submit your sighting along with your notes (including a link to this thread for balance) to the national records committee and await the outcome of their findings. Whilst you are at it you may as well submit your Forster's tern record too. The outcome will be the same for both.
thanks
i sent the photos, they said they couldn't distinguish
Trakuş bird committee cannot distinguish bird species. For this reason, I uploaded it to bird life and e bird and they said it would be better to leave it undefined.
The trakuş and bird committee cannot distinguish between the brown whistle and the green whistle.
