400 In A Year?? (3 Viewers)

[djludlow]

Alan I'm glad your still looking!...(off the top of my head) for c20 years I can recall some of the birds found by numerous birders in the Lee Valley Essex/Herts/Middx.reservoirs,..Phalaropes (one guy found three RNP's during this period) also Skuas (all 4), Sabines, Little Auk, Leache's petrel, Fulmar, Gannet, Manx Shearwater, Snow Bunting, Twite, Hoopoe etc. also found in the valley 3 Ortolan's and a Barred Warbler(together same field), Red-rumped Swallow, Marsh Sandpiper, Paddyfield Warbler, Subalpine Warbler etc. It may be something to do with ''fly-lines'' (ie hitting the East coast, then the Wash and heading South, through the Ouse washes and then the Lee valley before hitting the Thames?...pure speculation at this end (and not mine).

Find some reservoirs, old sewage farms (are there any left?) small isolated copses at the top of a hill, Set-aside fields, Industrial/marshland, gravel pits etc....and when you find the ''biggie'' invite a few friends over.

The Lee valley has a good area of gravel pits ,South Warwickshire has Marsh farm ( now decimated ). I have spent the last 25 years driving around south Warwicks and have to agree with Alan that it is not a good birding area.
Within 10 miles of Straford I can recall American wigeon ,Great white egret , Aquatic warbler and Dotterel. Some of these are from sites now spoilt.

 

[Dog]

The Lee valley has a good area of gravel pits ,South Warwickshire has Marsh farm ( now decimated ). I have spent the last 25 years driving around south Warwicks and have to agree with Alan that it is not a good birding area.
Within 10 miles of Straford I can recall American wigeon ,Great white egret , Aquatic warbler and Dotterel. Some of these are from sites now spoilt.

I must agree with Dave, Warwickshire has very little decent habitat not just for birds but most wildlife, it has no specialist habitats of note, no specialist breeding birds & if you look at the map in Peter Marren's Britain's Rare Flowers book there is a big hole in England centred in Warwickshire of no rare plants. In 30 years I've only seen 250 species in the county but it doesn't stop me looking, although most days are blanked as I don't even have anything worth putting in my notebook.

Mike.

 

[KenM]

I must agree with Dave, Warwickshire has very little decent habitat not just for birds but most wildlife, it has no specialist habitats of note, no specialist breeding birds & if you look at the map in Peter Marren's Britain's Rare Flowers book there is a big hole in England centred in Warwickshire of no rare plants. In 30 years I've only seen 250 species in the county but it doesn't stop me looking, although most days are blanked as I don't even have anything worth putting in my notebook.

Mike.

I have no measure to compare against...as far as your personal list is concerned, regarding the definitive list for Warwickshire, compared against say Leicestershire, Staffordshire, Wiltshire, Derbyshire, Worcestershire and Shropshire (all landlocked), accepting that each county will have physical differences..I'd be surprised if there was a ''seismic'' difference in relative County totals. London's list is c350 (from 1900) as up to 2007 (approx.), and I suspect enjoys ''greater'' observer coverage. Might be of interest to compare stats.? (as of this moment..I'm unsure as to what my personal London list is?) something for me to work on.

cheers

 

[Phil Andrews]

I have no measure to compare against...as far as your personal list is concerned, regarding the definitive list for Warwickshire, compared against say Leicestershire, Staffordshire, Wiltshire, Derbyshire, Worcestershire and Shropshire (all landlocked), accepting that each county will have physical differences..I'd be surprised if there was a ''seismic'' difference in relative County totals. London's list is c350 (from 1900) as up to 2007 (approx.), and I suspect enjoys ''greater'' observer coverage. Might be of interest to compare stats.? (as of this moment..I'm unsure as to what my personal London list is?) something for me to work on.

cheers

As at the last published West Midland Bird Club annual report (2008) the three main counties had the following lists:

Staffordshire - 313
Warwickshire - 307
Worcestershire - 300

A few birds will have been added since then eg Barred Warbler, Glossy Ibis and Spotted Sand for Worcs and Woodchat for Staffs off the top of my head

 

[draycotebirding]

As at the last published West Midland Bird Club aanual report (2008) the principle counties had the following lists:

Staffordshire - 313
Warwickshire - 307
Worcestershire - 300

A few birds will have been added since then eg Barred Warbler, Glossy Ibis and Spotted Sand for Worcs and Woodchat for Staffs off the top of my head

And as most of Warwickshires birders spend the majority of their time out of the county I guess it will not get any higher

Regards

John

 

[walshey]

I think the top London lister passed 300 last year, but then London does have a sort of East coast aspect, although well upriver. From my time there I can remember records of Barred Warbler and such-like in Barking and obviously Rainham. Birds would presumably follow the river upstream and plonk down in the few areas of suitable habitat. Beddington, where I served my apprentiship, always got good birds as it was an island of well worked good habitat (still is!). Mini falls have occured there, e.g one September morning with SE winds and early morning mist produced Tawny Pipit and Ortolan, almost like Portland. '93 alone produced Rustic & Little Buntings plus Citrine Wagtail, all inland birds. Clearly this spot has a massive advantage over the rest of South London as the habitat is almost tailor made for migrants. Out in the green 'deserts' of the Midlands I suspect it must be much harder work, and that most stuff goes straight overhead.

John

 

[Gavin Haig]

I suppose it's theoretically possible for virtually anything to turn up virtually anywhere, but there is clearly a kind of 'oasis' effect in operation, wherever you are - even the coast will have hot-spots. But inland, surely it must be more so? Beddington has already been mentioned, and I would add Barn Elms Res. (or whatever it's called now).

Passerines I can recall there (off the top of my head) during my time in the London area include Desert Wheatear, Red-throated Pipit, Ortolan, Twite, Melodious Warbler and Shore Lark, but I'll bet I've missed a few.

If you took the Barn Elms or Beddington 'footprint' and plonked it down randomly somewhere else inland I wonder if anyone (Owen?) could make a really convincing case for expecting a similar wealth of goodies? I would be surprised.

 

[metcow333]

I think one of the things missed by Owen et al about the occurence of rare passerines inland, is the habitat difference, and habitat choices the birds are able to make. Whereas at coastal locations, many birds will be tired after long crossings and are therefore more likely to dump down in to small bushes, copses etc, where they can be relatively easily found. Birds that are in land will presumably be less exhausted, as they have the option of ditching earlier had they wished to, and are therefore more able to find large woods, dense areas of cover etc, where they may be nigh on impossible to locate (even on the coast, large areas of woodland often gets ignored as being 'too hard' to work).

So even if Owen/'roys points all stand true, that there are lots of rare passerines inland that are overlooked, partly because of negative attitude (something I am guilty of whilst being inland, despite a Brown Shrike within a mile of my house), it is still substantially harder to find passerines inland than on the coast.

 

[Steve Lister]

As at the last published West Midland Bird Club annual report (2008) the three main counties had the following lists:

Staffordshire - 313
Warwickshire - 307
Worcestershire - 300

A few birds will have been added since then eg Barred Warbler, Glossy Ibis and Spotted Sand for Worcs and Woodchat for Staffs off the top of my head

Leicestershire - 301
Rutland - 293
Leics and Rutland (VC55) - 316

Steve

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Leicestershire - 301
Rutland - 293
Leics and Rutland (VC55) - 316

Steve

I think Northamptonshire has about 320 species, although I'm not sure of the exact figure. I guess Nottinghamshire must have a high list for an inland county, as it seems to pick up a lot of rarities.

On the subject of inland areas being underwatched, I tend to think that the most underwatched areas are inland sites in coastal counties because birders living near the coast all tend to head there. The Midlands is probably quite well watched because there are large numbers of birders and it's a bit far from the coast. I always see loads of birders about in Northants when I'm there.

When I lived in Northamptonshire the theory was that prominent hills were good for migrants (I suppose because they stick out into the sky, a bit like promontories stick out into the sea?). I don't know if that's true but I did find a Richard's Pipit on Borough Hill near Daventry, and I think quite a few decent migrants have been found in similar situations. It's definitely easier to find rare migrants and vagrants by the coast though.

Tips for improving your self-found list:
1. Go birding in coastal areas.
2. Go birding in areas where not many other people do.
3. If neither of the above are possible, work very hard at it!

 

[Ian Bennell]

Herts list is only 307. It's amazing how many good birds have been seen sometimes just yards from the county boundary! Surely London's list is so much bigger because they count birds from neighbouring counties? Grey-Cheeked Thrush for example was in Herts but also counts as London.

 

[djludlow]

Most inland counties just over 300 then.

Fair isle 362 !
Cornwall 412.
Norfolk 420 +.

Speaks for itself about location.

 

[Xenospiza]

Herts list is only 307. It's amazing how many good birds have been seen sometimes just yards from the county boundary! Surely London's list is so much bigger because they count birds from neighbouring counties? Grey-Cheeked Thrush for example was in Herts but also counts as London.

London has lots of people and little habitat, so the good bits (certainly Rainham, Beddington, Staines, less so Lea Valley) get the "saturation" coverage required to find rarities (this is also why we need more people to take pictures of funny birds in their back gardens). When twitching, you may have to wait for hours for a bird to show – when you're searching alone, no matter how good the area (or how good you are!), you would easily miss that.
It is easier to find something at the coast because you tend to have a rather linear piece of habitat. At inland sites, you usually have four directions to think of... and of course the birds have that choice as well!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Most inland counties just over 300 then.

Fair isle 362 !
Cornwall 412.
Norfolk 420 +.

Speaks for itself about location.

The Avon list is in the 330's. So not every bit of coast does a great deal better than some of those inland counties!

All the best

 

[JoanT]

London has lots of people and little habitat, so the good bits (certainly Rainham, Beddington, Staines, less so Lea Valley) get the "saturation" coverage required to find rarities !

It is also why you will find rarities there as for the most part London is a concrete jungle for a migrating bird. As an example the number of Wheatears turning up on a London farm is out of all proportion to what is found just a few miles away when there is loads of suitable habitat to search. They have spread out much more thinly and only a fraction of the numbers seen on the London farm are seen.

Joan

 

[djludlow]

The Avon list is in the 330's. So not every bit of coast does a great deal better than some of those inland counties!

All the best

I agree ,a look at the map tells you why. It is for a reason that many of us go to Scilly or Shetland for a few days in autumn and why we may go to Norfolk for a weekend.

 

[Johnny Allan]

I think the top London lister passed 300 last year, but then London does have a sort of East coast aspect, although well upriver. From my time there I can remember records of Barred Warbler and such-like in Barking and obviously Rainham. Birds would presumably follow the river upstream and plonk down in the few areas of suitable habitat. Beddington, where I served my apprentiship, always got good birds as it was an island of well worked good habitat (still is!). Mini falls have occured there, e.g one September morning with SE winds and early morning mist produced Tawny Pipit and Ortolan, almost like Portland. '93 alone produced Rustic & Little Buntings plus Citrine Wagtail, all inland birds. Clearly this spot has a massive advantage over the rest of South London as the habitat is almost tailor made for migrants. Out in the green 'deserts' of the Midlands I suspect it must be much harder work, and that most stuff goes straight overhead.

John

I quite agree Walshiae, Beddington still turns up outstanding birds and I'm still trudging the sludge (and the landfill nowadays). An airiel shot shows an 'oasis' in a sea of concrete. Being part of the River Wandle Valley and reasonably close to the Thames is definitely an advantage and sites, such as Crayford Marshes and Rainham, on the Thames to the east do even better.

Give us a shout if you're ever down our way again and planning to visit the farm.

Johnny

 

[Johnny Allan]

Herts list is only 307. It's amazing how many good birds have been seen sometimes just yards from the county boundary! Surely London's list is so much bigger because they count birds from neighbouring counties? Grey-Cheeked Thrush for example was in Herts but also counts as London.

The Surrey Vice County list is 332, which I thought was pretty low before seeing some of the other inland county totals. Having the Thames along our northern border must be an advantage.

Johnny

 

[Paul Chapman]

The Surrey Vice County list is 332, which I thought was pretty low before seeing some of the other inland county totals. Having the Thames along our northern border must be an advantage.

Johnny

Johnny

That makes the Avon list and the Surrey list broadly comparable. I quoted 330's above but it may have hit 340 with recent additions. It was I believe 331 in 2000 by that year's Avon Bird Report. White-billed Diver, Upland Sandpiper, Sharp-tailed Sandpiper and Baird's Sandpiper spring to mind as additions.

All the best

 

[Paul Chapman]

On the original topic, Birding World Volume 3 Number 12 page 434 (December 1990) quotes the following annual bird totals - taxonomy will be that at the time (obviously) and it will include Ireland:-

1980 - 371
1981 - 378
1982 - 391
1983 - 397
1984 - 393
1985 - 408
1986 - 371
1987 - 391
1988 - 395
1989 - 380

It would be interesting to see that brought up to date.

All the best