AOS to discard patronyms in English names (3 Viewers)

[Mysticete]

Except that it simply says "The South American Classification Committee was founded in 1998" whereas it formerly said "The South American Classification Committee, founded in 1998, is an official committee of the American Ornithological Society".

I'd say it's an extremely difficult task to take over and successfully operate a website which has been run by a single person for a quarter of a century, so it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

I am really confused about the nature of SACC. Remsen clearly stepped down from them, but they have there own unaffiliated website and clearly do things in a very different manner. So it's always felt a bit more detached from AOS compared to NACC, which is well integrated into the parent organization.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Is the image, coming across on this board, an accurate reflection of wider dissent? Will this definitely get forced through, are the various publishers, authors, listing authorities likely to be fully compliant, I don't suppose we can even guess at this point.

I wonder what the 'Bird names for birds' people, are thinking when they see Jimmy Kimmel mocking them, did they underestimate the strength of feeling?

 

[wcb]

...And a rule like we have with UK postage stamps - you can't have a bird patronym unless you are dead already...

Not that it adds owt to the debate but this is no longer a rule with UK stamps. Obviously living monarchs appear on them but in the 60s there was some sailor, and Roger Taylor off Queen was in the Freddie Mercury tribute. I'm sure there have been more since including sporting ones - maybe Andrew Flintoff weeing in Tony Blair's garden?

 

[Lerxst]

I wonder what the 'Bird names for birds' people, are thinking when they see Jimmy Kimmel mocking them, did they underestimate the strength of feeling?

To their credit, BN4B keeps an updated spreadsheet online that anyone can access, with every article and video, pro and con, that they are aware of. They know about Kimmel.

Here is the sheet

Bird Name Articles and Other Resources

General This spreadsheet was created and is maintained by Bird Names for Birds. <a href="http://www.birdnamesforbirds.wordpress.com/">www.birdnamesforbirds.wordpress.com</a> Shareable link to this spreadsheet: <a href="https://bit.ly/BirdNameArticles">https://bit.ly/BirdNameArticles</a> Title,...

docs.google.com

 

[Lerxst]

I wonder what the 'Bird names for birds' people, are thinking when they see Jimmy Kimmel mocking them, did they underestimate the strength of feeling?

Woah. I had not watched the Kimmel bit. That was brutal. I know folks in those various orgs. They are NOT going to like being the butt of the joke from someone that is ostensibly on their side. When you are a leftist and have lost Kimmel, you've lost.

Do you want to see what a conservative will do with this? Watch this:

 

[Andy Adcock]

To their credit, BN4B keeps an updated spreadsheet online that anyone can access, with every article and video, pro and con, that they are aware of. They know about Kimmel.

Here is the sheet

Bird Name Articles and Other Resources

General This spreadsheet was created and is maintained by Bird Names for Birds. <a href="http://www.birdnamesforbirds.wordpress.com/">www.birdnamesforbirds.wordpress.com</a> Shareable link to this spreadsheet: <a href="https://bit.ly/BirdNameArticles">https://bit.ly/BirdNameArticles</a> Title,...

docs.google.com

Thanks for that Lerxt, very interesting, this sums it up nicely for me, from the Washington Examiner.

'Here is the thing: no one actually cares about this. This is especially true of the country's racial minorities, who are struggling to make ends meet and living paycheck to paycheck. Renaming birds under the guise of racial equality only matters to one demographic: overly educated, out-of-touch with reality, wealthy white liberals

Bird names will continue to live in relative avian anonymity, known only by bird-watching enthusiasts. Of all the hyperbolic, hysterical things that white liberals believe are harming minorities, this might be the most stupid.

“We’ve come to understand that there are certain names that have offensive or derogatory connotations that cause pain to people, and that it is important to change those, to remove those as barriers to their participation in the world of birds,” Handel said.

Offensive to whom? Cause pain to whom? Who are these people experiencing such trauma they are unable to function because of bird names? Where do they live? We need names and actual video interviews of such people who are randomly walking down the street and suffering from PTSD because they see a particular bird.

No, this is happening to appease one group and one group only: white liberals. It's their latest project to placate their toxic intellectualism and fetish of virtue signaling — especially among the white-guilt liberal crowd. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, was asking for this. Not one racial minority was blaming an inability to succeed in this country on systemic avian nomenclature supremacy.

There are challenges racial minorities face in this country, but worrying about bird names is not one of them. And, in reality, renaming birds has much more to do with the dopamine hit and warped internal satisfaction these white liberals feel when they advance senseless ideas such as these. They yearn to feel morally and intellectually superior to the world and use stunts like these to revel in those feelings. This is white liberal intellectualism at its worst.'

 

[qwerty5]

Woah. I had not watched the Kimmel bit. That was brutal. I know folks in those various orgs. They are NOT going to like being the butt of the joke from someone that is ostensibly on their side. When you are a leftist and have lost Kimmel, you've lost.

Do you want to see what a conservative will do with this? Watch this:

Haven't finished the video yet, but found the Taylor Swift comment hilarious.

 

[Lerxst]

And from across the pond. I have no idea who these people are. Need a little help, Jeeves.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Kevin O'sullivan is a British Matt Walsh.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Audobon had 'harmful attitudes'......wow

 

[qwerty5]

systemic avian nomenclature supremacy

These words occurring together is a sure sign this country is messed up.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

"If in doubt, do nothing"

Ever the pragmatist! Good job he wasn’t a doctor, an engineer etc. For many ‘do nothing’ is not an option …. and I would argue that the do nothing option is only apt, when there may be significant consequences of wrong action (like loosing a battle). This hardly applies to something so trivial as the spelling of a Latin word.

 

[Farnboro John]

Ever the pragmatist! Good job he wasn’t a doctor, an engineer etc. For many ‘do nothing’ is not an option …. and I would argue that the do nothing option is only apt, when there may be significant consequences of wrong action (like loosing a battle). This hardly applies to something so trivial as the spelling of a Latin word.

Actually I would say it's more important for doctors and engineers to wait for information: that's why the first principle of medicine is do no harm.

John

 

[Xenospiza]

Woah. I had not watched the Kimmel bit. That was brutal. I know folks in those various orgs. They are NOT going to like being the butt of the joke from someone that is ostensibly on their side. When you are a leftist and have lost Kimmel, you've lost.

Anyone got a link to Kimmel? The only thing in this Matt Walsh video that I did not expect (or did I...) was the lack of African American representation in the AOS D&IC.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Anyone got a link to Kimmel? The only thing in this Matt Walsh video that I did not expect (or did I...) was the lack of African American representation in the AOS D&IC.

Hence the criticism that the move is spearheaded by middle class, white people whilst people of colour (is that the right term now?) have more important issues to deal with rather than a few bird names.

 

[l_raty]

Anyone got a link to Kimmel?

 

[pbjosh]

I am really confused about the nature of SACC. Remsen clearly stepped down from them, but they have there own unaffiliated website and clearly do things in a very different manner. So it's always felt a bit more detached from AOS compared to NACC, which is well integrated into the parent organization.

What I know has happened is that after Van Remsen resigned from NACC and AOS and the SACC has told AOS that it is breaking the affiliation.

Beyond that I don't know all the details / haven't asked but as I understand it, SACC will continue as it is but without AOS affiliation. So AOS more probably will need to remove the SACC from its list of committees at some point.

 

[Mysticete]

I assume that means Remsen will still be running it then?

Although without affiliation to any sort of organization with wider membership, their effective clout will be greatly diminished. While people weren't obligated before to follow their lead, they will have even less reason now.

Although I am glad to see there will not be much of a disruption. As much as I may complain about decisions and structure of their organization, they are still the most transparent taxonomic committee out there, and I usually learn a lot from reading through proposals and the votes. Much more transparent than NACC.

 

[pbjosh]

I assume that means Remsen will still be running it then?

I've not heard/seen anything to the contrary.

Although without affiliation to any sort of organization with wider membership, their effective clout will be greatly diminished. While people weren't obligated before to follow their lead, they will have even less reason now.

What really matters in this day and age is what eBird and IOC do, and to a lesser degree what gets published in field guides. WGAC is already handily the biggest challenge to NACC and SACC and their authority. I don't think affiliation or lack of affiliation with AOS actually will matter the slightest but perhaps I'm wrong here?

 

[pbjosh]

Also, as I'm not sure if I've seen it mentioned here yet: I saw that NACC will no longer be responsible for English names in North America. Not sure if there will be a new committee at AOS for this or exactly what will happen. There were ruffled feathers over this within NACC as I heard it (not surprisingly) but on the whole I am not sure it's a bad thing. There is frequently a disconnect between what a group of lifelong ornithologists and taxonomists think makes for a good name and what more pragmatic people and/or the english speaking and bird discussing community think makes a good name. Whatever new system for English names comes into place, they don't have a big hurdle to clear to do better than Short-billed Gull and Thick-billed Longspur.