Are Bird Hides 'Uncomfortable' Places? (1 Viewer)

[Farnboro John]

In my experience, the hide that seems to bring out the worst out in people is Ivy Lake North hide at Blashford Lakes, Hampshire. The regular wintering bitterns are often only visble in good light* from a side slot that can only be used by two people at a time - not ideal when there are 10 or so in the hide and the two "occupiers" of the key spot are photographers! There is sometimes a mini-queue to get in first when the hides are opened and the tension can be palpable when the bittern is showing (Luckily this year I got my photos early and left! )

cheers, alan

*ie not through the tinted glass at the front of the hide.

With you on that. There should be legislation requiring the tinting to be removed and opening slots installed like any normal hide. This would necessitate a ban on school visits to that particular hide but individuals could always visit with their families at weekends.

John

 

[Kits]

... When outside & I asked why she wanted to leave the comparative warmth & comfort of the hide my wife said that she felt uneasy asking me 'simple sounding questions about the birds' in front of 'all those bird watchers with all the proper equipment.' ...

So, are public hides places that occasional or non birders feel unwelcome & uncomfortable, or was my wife just unlucky today?

I think it is down to your wife's perception of others in the hide.

OH and I are occasional birders. We are not terribly knowledgeable (I know more than him cos of BF!), and our equipment tends to be a camera each - we invariably forget the binoculars.

I have never felt unwelcome or uncomfortable. On several occasions we have been told interesting things by people in the hide, or had birds pointed out to us, or been offered a look through their equipment.

 

[chris butterworth]

I used to be one of those birders that never used a hide. "Real birding demands you wander around getting soaking wet, frozen and covered in various layers of brown stuff". As I'm getting on a bit now I appreciate both the comfort and convenience of hides ( real hides - not the ones with double glazing and central heating ). I can understand the way hides can make people uncomfortable. They can appear to be full of knowledgeable people with huge, intimidating pieces of equipment but a quick look around may often show that the optics / cameras are not 'well looked after' but brand new, and more than a few of the people are just learning. I was lucky when I started as there were local birders who were more than pleased to be asked questions and I conned my parents, on more than one occasion, to holiday in Nth Norfolk when Richardson et al were on the East Bank at Cley so I grew up with asking questions. I presume it'd be more difficult to start asking the same 'newby' questions as an adult for fear of ridicule but most people are more than happy to help. There are, of course, miserable buggers, cliques and downright birding snobs but, thankfully, they are few and far between. If you can get over the thought that you should know everything 'at your age' and the feeling your 'personal space' is being invaded then hides can be great places.

Chris

 

[Farnboro John]

I find hide conversations liberating. You don't have to know the other person or even ask their name: just discuss a mutual pleasure to the extent you both feel like it and indulge the comradeship of making sure neither of you miss anything - then walk away with no baggage and think "what a nice person - isn't birding great!"

John

 

[NoSpringChicken]

For example on a cold winter afternoon at Buckenham Marshes listening to the Wigeon the hide becomes a wonderful retreat out of the wind. I find such times as great for thinking, which I don't always experience the same whilst walking about on a reserve.

The only problem with that hide is that it doesn't have any windows in the back wall. You could be sitting in there, snug and warm, listening to the Wigeon and thinking deep thoughts, all the while oblivious to the Short Eared Owls hunting over the marshes at the back.

Ron

 

[Jaff]

You can tell your wife that we all started somewhere and that even these days we may drop the odd clanger of an ID that makes us look like total dingbats in front of other birders but these things happen and 99% of birders I know (especially at 'said' reserve and 'said' hide ) are more than happy to share their experiences and knowledge as well as let people peer through their scopes if there is something of interest. You should never be afraid to ask as any true birder with even the most sophisticated and expensive looking kit should be more than willing to help out those who are just finding their feet and the vast majority of us are indeed like that. Next time you visit feel free to drop me a PM and I'll be more than happy to meet you there and help out any way I can which includes lending out my my big expensive scope! :king:

 

[Gill Osborne]

I find hide conversations liberating. You don't have to know the other person or even ask their name: just discuss a mutual pleasure to the extent you both feel like it and indulge the comradeship of making sure neither of you miss anything - then walk away with no baggage and think "what a nice person - isn't birding great!"

:clap: Spot on! I'm not shy anymore about asking folks what a certain bird is if I'm not 100% sure and, like I said earlier, have found the majority of birders to be more than happy to discuss ID or what's about elsewhere :t:

 

[JTweedie]

One thing I don't like is sitting in a quiet hide and a young family come in (no this isn't going the way you think) - and because of the perceived etiquette of hides being places where you have to be really quiet, I can feel the new people's discomfort. Therefore if they start asking each other what they can see and if they're struggling a bit I'll tend to help them out.

I try to show them birds that are showing really well (rather than the little dots hundreds of metres away!) and maybe throw in a little bit of info like "that bird has come from Iceland" or whatever. We should be welcoming to new people especially - I'd never want a person to feel uncomfortable in my presence (although I'm quite reserved normally and wouldn't strike up a conversation just for the sake of it). Even a little "hello" when people come in to the hide can make the hide a more welcoming place - it doesn't take much effort really. And even shuffling up to make some room can make a difference too (as long as it's not full already of course).

I think it's great if being helpful means that someone else gets the bug and goes on to be a birder, or at least they become someone with a little extra interest in the natural world and a little extra knowledge than they had before.

 

[Lawsyd]

Thanks for all of the responses so far. Some interesting points have been made. It's true, for example, that if you go into a hide & a few people are talking to each other in whispers it may be nothing more sinister than a group of birders who have known each other for years - it doesn't mean you are being ignored as such. Likewise, I agree that a large scope doesn't necessarily mean 'good birder' - it might mean 'rich birder'. From my own perspective, when I started birding & visiting hides I looked on those inside the hide like I look on a crowd at a football match - some of the crowd will be really knowledgable; some less so; some of the crowd will know each other & sit in the same seats every game; some will be first time visitors to the stadium; some will wear all the team colours they can; others will be dressed as if they were going to a business meeting. Eventually (& I hope my wife reaches this level) I realized that it didn't matter who you did or didn't speak to or what equipment you had, everybody was there for the common purpose of the birds.

Incidentally, in response to one of the earlier posters, no it wasn't Leighton Moss.

 

[JTweedie]

Even those with expensive scopes might not necessarily be rich - they might have saved and saved or got a loan or still be paying them off, but because they love their hobby the scopes allow them to enjoy the hobby even more (says I who doesn't have a scope but had the privilege of looking through someone's Swarovski last year and that's the type I want to get one day).

 

[Bowlander]

There are loads of dudes at LM, when listening to some Swarovski'd up folk the other week they were struggling to ID a Gadwall and didn't see the Marsh Harrier quartering until I pointed it out to my son.

What really annoys me is when they spread their tripod/gear across a whole bench when the hides are busy- if they can afford a £2000 scope they can afford a £30 hide clamp.

I think its great to see folk without bins enjoying birds.

 

[Gill Osborne]

... (says I who doesn't have a scope but had the privilege of looking through someone's Swarovski last year and that's the type I want to get one day).

Yes, I looked through a Swarovski in July last year and WOW!!!!!! :eek!: I'll swear I could see the EYELASHES on that Wood Sandpiper!!!!! o Definitely something worth saving up for! Yet the birder who owned it said he preferred Leica so I think I'll be looking through a few different brands before I buy my own.

 

[Gill Osborne]

There are loads of dudes at LM, when listening to some Swarovski'd up folk the other week they were struggling to ID a Gadwall and didn't see the Marsh Harrier quartering until I pointed it out to my son.

:-O I was once in the Grizedale Hide with Neil and an old guy there was chatting away to Neil about cameras and ignoring me. Up popped a Marsh Harrier and, just as quickly, dooked back down into the reeds :smoke: When I mentioned it (the second I saw it whilst it was still in view!) the old guy just pooh-poohed it and dismissed it as a buzzard :smoke: Patronising old fart I thought to myself

 

[Lawts]

The only problem with that hide is that it doesn't have any windows in the back wall. You could be sitting in there, snug and warm, listening to the Wigeon and thinking deep thoughts, all the while oblivious to the Short Eared Owls hunting over the marshes at the back.

Ron

For me as a bit of a twitcher it provides a complete contrast and welcome change; solitude, no charging about; and a chance to appreciate common birds and do some general birding - takes me back to my birding roots.

 

[NoSpringChicken]

You are absolutely right Steve. Buckenham Marshes is a wonderfully atmospheric place. The sound of the Wigeon whistling in the mist on a frosty January morning is eery and beautiful. I am just surprised that they spent all that money on a superb hide but didn't add just one window in the back so that it is possible to get an all round view of the marshes.

Actually I have just realised that I can remember only one occasion when there has been anybody else in the hide with me and my OH. That's the way I like my hides.

Ron

 

[Adam W]

Even those with expensive scopes might not necessarily be rich - they might have saved and saved or got a loan or still be paying them off, but because they love their hobby the scopes allow them to enjoy the hobby even more (says I who doesn't have a scope but had the privilege of looking through someone's Swarovski last year and that's the type I want to get one day).

Thats a very good post, so often we hear this idea of all the gear no idea and undoubtabley there'll be cases of that but i cant help feeling that it often comes from jealousy. I have Swarovski bins and scope an Canon camera etc but i couldnt be more working class/poor if I tried i just choose to spend what money I do earn on the best available gear to enjoy the hobby i'm passionate about.

 

[birdboybowley]

Yes, I looked through a Swarovski in July last year and WOW!!!!!! :eek!: I'll swear I could see the EYELASHES on that Wood Sandpiper!!!!! o Definitely something worth saving up for! Yet the birder who owned it said he preferred Leica so I think I'll be looking through a few different brands before I buy my own.

Change of direction slightly - but Gill, go Swarovski as Leica's after-market customer care absolutely sucks. They should be ashamed. I have always been a Leica boy but after recent occurences I will be switching to Swarovski or Zeiss next time I make a big purchase
Now back to hides.....personally don't like them if I have a choice as I find them quite claustrophobic and prefer to be able to see birds flying over my head etc. But when it's raining, they are a god-send!
Also agree with Alan about the North Hide at Blashford....the Woodland hide isn't much better as it too has only one opening window that usually has someone sitting there armed with a huge lens firing away...I mean, how many Redpoll/Siskin photos can one person need?!?

 

[intellectual]

Very interesting thread!

Over the years I've found that most birders are only too pleased to help be it in an hide or otherwise. The only hides I visit now are those very close to my car because my legs are weak.

For quite a few year now I've preferred my own personal hide namely the car, it's warm and keeps me and my mates if they go with me out the wind, rain and whatever the elements throw at us! If on my own I get to put all my gear on the passenger seat ready for action!!!

I first did it about eight years ago while at Fairburn Ings car park and was very surprised at the number of birds I got ( I reported it on this forum and actually one member said what a good idea and he would start to do it ) including a party of Bullfinch.

When I have been in hides and see someone struggling to ID a bird etc I have asked if they want any help and if they do I impart my knowledge, I may not be right every time but at least it starts a conversation with them, and puts them at ease.

Good luck!

Kind regards

Max

 

[astley]

very interesting thread.

I am old school to a point and if in a packed hide and a lady is standing I will often ask if she would like to sit down, many will not.

I have had good and bad experiences, I was at a well known reserve once with my 10 year old next to me, and one of the super scope brigade, desperate to take a photo of a particular bird, rammed his lense right across us virtually knocking my son off the bench, no apology nothing.

I asked if he was taking a photo or trying to bomb the poor thing.

Another time we entered a hide and there were three gentleman sitting there and one could not engage my son in conversation quick enough, my son was pointing around asking what this was what the other was.

The other two gentleman gave a snigger and said that there was nothing there worth seeing today, and he might as well go home.

Now to a ten year old a Robin is as interesting as the next rarity, the two guys jumped up and left, the guy that remained pointed out that they were Serious birders and would do 500 mile each weekend on the quest.

I bet they would be really annoyed as within, 5 minutes of leaving a male Smew and a Marsh Harrier put in an appearance, good job we did not take their advise and go home eh?

Woops

 

[chris butterworth]

The only problem with that hide is that it doesn't have any windows in the back wall. You could be sitting in there, snug and warm, listening to the Wigeon and thinking deep thoughts, all the while oblivious to the Short Eared Owls hunting over the marshes at the back.

Ron

True of all hides but it's only an extension of "Should have been here yesterday / 5 minutes ago". Every bird missed is an excuse to go out again.

Chris