Are Porro's Dead? (1 Viewer)

[looksharp65]

Does that plural hold true with Italian names or only with members of the Onion family?

Suppose Paolo Ignazio Pietro Porro went to the opera with his wife: Would you say "The Porros went to see "Un ballo in maschera." (Assuming the production was in Italy and not held in Sweden.) Or would you say "The porri went to see "Un ballo in maschera."

Bob

Bob,

my post was intentionally a scherzo. Neither Italian nor English is my mother-tongue. Anyhow, the sentence looks better to me with "Porri".
What the Italian would think is beyond my knowledge.

In Sweden, it is not uncommon to pluralize family names:
"Lindqvist, Lindqvistarna" or "Johansson, Johanssönerna", but it has an air of facetious and informal speech to it.

 

[TR3K]

Did you know that Opticron have made the best of both worlds? They have made Porros with wait for it, with internal focusing........

:t:

 

[Malloot]

:t:

In the Netherlands we have the Bynolyt Hawk porro's with internal focus for years now. Never took a look trough them though. Actually I don't now why, because I have a pair of Bynolyt roofs as "alwaysinmycartohavebinsaround".

Bynolyt is a OEM Kamakura product which is quite popular in the Netherlands.
I think they were sold also in the UK.

By the way Opticron is since recent times also available in the Netherlands.

 

[brocknroller]

New Porro's from Kowa thanks to RJM in Japan who seems to agree that Porro's should be buried as already dead. See his post here also:

New Kowa Bino Lines: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=208580

http://www.kowa-prominar.ne.jp/pro/bino/yf/top.htm

Bob

Bob,

I suspect the "new" Kowa porros are actually rebadged and redressed Leupold Yosemites. The specs match except for the close focus, which is not listed. They also advertise how the narrow IPD is good for kids.

The Yosmite's close focus is 16.4", same as my 10x42 SE. If that could be halved, they would be more useful, especially for kids, who like to look at butterflies and bugs.

Brock

 

[brocknroller]

Thanks, but I own a brilliant pair of Swarovski Habicht 7x42, but I want a additional pair of 8x56 Nobillem. The availability isn't the problem. Lack of budget and quite a big and expensive wishlist are my limit.

I want one too, but first I will need to start a weight training program to build up my arms and eat lots of spinach.

Brock

 

[Malloot]

I want one too, but first I will need to start a weight training program to build up my arms and eat lots of spinach.

Brock

Brock,

The weight of a pair of these are bit on the heavy side. I couldn't agree more.
But I would like to use them for my Badger (Meles meles) watching which takes place from the early evening till the late nights. Or from the late nights till early morning when they return to there setts.

 

[typo]

New Porro's from Kowa thanks to RJM in Japan who seems to agree that Porro's should be buried as already dead. See his post here also:

New Kowa Bino Lines: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=208580

http://www.kowa-prominar.ne.jp/pro/bino/yf/top.htm

Bob

I spoke to one of the Kowa guys at Bird Fair today and was told that they had picked up the line after Leopold had switched factories for their Yosemite. Apart from the 'bling' focus and a slightly different body moulding it is extremely similar to the Vortex Raptor, and Opticron Savannas I also tried. However they all have different coatings judging by the colour. Kowa were making a big real about how tough their coatings were on the range. View wise, given I was looking at totally different outlooks it was impossible to really tell them apart. I came away thinking the Vortex 6.5 x and the Kowa 8x were the choice pairs, just a bit sharper. May have just been sample variation and may not represent any general difference. Clearly that coloured focus wheel on the Kowa is dividing opinion. One of the sales guys started to coloured one in with a black marker pen while I was there. Improved the looks considerably IMO.

I also tried a Celestron Nature (when they found one that wasn't broken) but my guess that is from a different source. The pair I tried didn't seem quite as sharp as the others, but had a slightly better field of view.

David

 

[ceasar]

Bob,

I suspect the "new" Kowa porros are actually rebadged and redressed Leupold Yosemites. The specs match except for the close focus, which is not listed. They also advertise how the narrow IPD is good for kids.

The Yosmite's close focus is 16.4", same as my 10x42 SE. If that could be halved, they would be more useful, especially for kids, who like to look at butterflies and bugs.

Brock

Brock,

On first look I thought that they might be more rugged than the current Yosemites, Celestrons etc., but on second look they seem very much the same.

The original Leupold Yosemite was really a nice little binocular! Unique in it's retro approach and simplicity and unique and individual with it's 3 different colors and rubber like exterior. It was a resounding success! The old 6 x 30 and 8 x 30 formats had been perfected before and during the war years. All they needed were updated coatings and some pizazz to make a comeback and Leupold supplied it.

Soon everybody was making inexpensive but good 6 x 30 and 8 x 30 porro prisms priced for your next door neighbor who just wanted a good reliable binocular for the family that was not built like a doorstop. But these new ones did not look like Leupold's originals. Instead they all looked like they were stamped out plastic clones from the same factory.

I was admiring my original Yosemite Ivory colored 6 x 30 the other day when I visited my brother who still has it and I wondered why they fixed something that clearly was not broken and turned it into just another marionette in the marching band. I suspect that the bottom line had something to do with it.

I'm sorry that I didn't get 1 or 2 more before Leupold changed over.

Bob

 

[KorHaan]

In the Netherlands we have the Bynolyt Hawk porro's with internal focus for years now. Never took a look trough them though. Actually I don't now why, because I have a pair of Bynolyt roofs as "alwaysinmycartohavebinsaround".

Bynolyt is a OEM Kamakura product which is quite popular in the Netherlands.
I think they were sold also in the UK.

By the way Opticron is since recent times also available in the Netherlands.

Bynolyt Hawk 10x42 porro's had an awfully narrow FOV, I found them not very interesting, but internally focusing meaning 100% WP is something that I'd like to see in very good porro's. With the focus wheel in the right place, meaning: a wide roll on the central hinge. Nice under the bill of a cap.
Can't reach the focus wheel on the Hawks when wearing a cap.

Best regards,

Ronald

 

[Roadbike]

Porro's are good optically but they are a small part of the market. I predict that since the manufacturers put most of there R&D money into roof's the porro will become extinct just like the dinosaur. I give them 5 years. What do you think?

I don't think that porro prism binoculars will continue to decline as a share of the total market from manufacturers cutting back on R&D. The existing porro designs could easily be produced with no R&D costs and would sell binoculars at some level well beyond 5 years. Declining consumer interest in the porro design will drive sales ever downward and manufacturers will at some point choose to spend money on lines that will generate a larger profit. Those lines may not be binoculars. Very small porro prism binoculars have all but disappeared and medium sized porro prism bins are disappearing rapidly. The next revolution will be in some form of image stabilized digitally enhanced viewing instrument that is as portable as current binoculars. When that happens the purely optical binocular will become extinct no matter the placement of it's prisms. Much as digital cameras have turned film cameras into paper weights.

 

[ceasar]

Nikon still sells a ton of their very small reverse porro prism Travelites and Pro-Staff ATBs. And there are other companies like Bushnell who also sell them. Including a few which could be considered "Alpha's" like the Bushnell 7 x 26 Custom Elite for about $250.00. Cheap at that price too!

There must be a 1/2 dozen or more companies like Leupold and Celestron that sell small 6 x 30 and 8 x 30 porros as fast as they can make them. Kowa and Opticron just came out with their versions.

Nikon still sells tons of standard size porros. Leupold and others sell lots of the more expensive water proof versions.

Go into any mass sporting good store like "Dick's" and look at the binoculars they sell. Most are porros. Most of the people who shop in sporting goods stores like these don't recognize a binocular unless it looks like a porro.

They ain't dead yet! Not by any means!

Bob

 

[jaymoynihan]

... a few which could be considered "Alpha's" like the Bushnell 7 x 26 Custom Elite :t: ..... Go into any mass sporting good store ...and look at the binoculars they sell.....porros. ....Most of the people who shop in sporting goods stores like these don't recognize a binocular unless it looks like a porro.

In these parts there are also lots of Roofs with really bad optics in the box stores. But good porros are a niche market of a niche market (good birding binos).

There are still some really good "birding" porros out there. In my experience, if you want alpha optical performance and want to stay well South of $1000 USD, all there is are porros.
(Disclosure: I have never looked through a Zen-Ray, or Vortex ).

Nikon 8x32 SE (some include the 10x42 and 12x50 SE's with them)

Swift Audubon 8.5x44 regular and ED

I have seen references to a Swarovski porro, but always wanted to see one but never had the opportunity, or could find a USA seller).

The above mentioned Bushnell 7x26 Elite.

What i would really like to see/try is a modern version (good eye relief, coatings, close focus) of a porro like the old 10x50 B&L or Swift Kestrel. Looked through a battered pair of that old B&L(cannot remember the model name) once at a hawk migration site, and they were sweet.

 

[Robert Wallace]

This thread seems to be following a trend!

LP record V compact disc,

betamax V VHS,

Film v digital, ect :-O Get my drift.

Need to be careful here.
I bought a new amplifier a few years ago and was very impressed with the sound of vinyl, in fact I bought a new SACD player because of the poor sound from my old CD player.
I thought that conventional wisdom suggested betamax superior to VHS
Yes digital is better than film for amateur photographers.
Bought my younger son some Nikon E11 porroprisms although I use roof prisms. I do use a pair of Zeiss 8x30B porroprisms for garden birdwatching.

 

[PHA]

Hi Jm,

You MUST see the Swarovski Habicht Porros. Specially the 8x30W and 10x40W. The 7x40 have very nice optics but a very narrow field of view for a 7x.
I am more a hunter than a birdwatcher but these two porros are truly outstanding in optics and built to last a lifetime!

PH

In these parts there are also lots of Roofs with really bad optics in the box stores. But good porros are a niche market of a niche market (good birding binos).

There are still some really good "birding" porros out there. In my experience, if you want alpha optical performance and want to stay well South of $1000 USD, all there is are porros.
(Disclosure: I have never looked through a Zen-Ray, or Vortex ).

Nikon 8x32 SE (some include the 10x42 and 12x50 SE's with them)

Swift Audubon 8.5x44 regular and ED

I have seen references to a Swarovski porro, but always wanted to see one but never had the opportunity, or could find a USA seller).

The above mentioned Bushnell 7x26 Elite.

What i would really like to see/try is a modern version (good eye relief, coatings, close focus) of a porro like the old 10x50 B&L or Swift Kestrel. Looked through a battered pair of that old B&L(cannot remember the model name) once at a hawk migration site, and they were sweet.

 

[jaymoynihan]

...You MUST see the Swarovski Habicht Porros. Specially the 8x30W and 10x40W. ...

Would like to. What is the close focus on those two?
I am in the USA.
I have never seen a place that carries their porros.:stuck:

 

[jaymoynihan]

An interesting article on 8x30 class porro's
http://www.brinbest.com/id38.html

 

[brocknroller]

An interesting article on 8x30 class porro's
http://www.brinbest.com/id38.html

Thanks for posting that Jay.

I think Brin says it "Best":

"There is simply no finer 8x30 Porro than the Nikon EII. The brightness, contrast, resolution and colour rendition is quite exceptional, and rivals the very best 8x30/8x32 roof prism models currently made, costing over 1,000GBP." (= 1,636.59 USD)

 

[ceasar]

His book, "Binoculars and People" is a gem!

http://www.brinbest.com/id14.html

Bob

 

[[email protected]]

Nikon still sells a ton of their very small reverse porro prism Travelites and Pro-Staff ATBs. And there are other companies like Bushnell who also sell them. Including a few which could be considered "Alpha's" like the Bushnell 7 x 26 Custom Elite for about $250.00. Cheap at that price too!

There must be a 1/2 dozen or more companies like Leupold and Celestron that sell small 6 x 30 and 8 x 30 porros as fast as they can make them. Kowa and Opticron just came out with their versions.

Nikon still sells tons of standard size porros. Leupold and others sell lots of the more expensive water proof versions.

Go into any mass sporting good store like "Dick's" and look at the binoculars they sell. Most are porros. Most of the people who shop in sporting goods stores like these don't recognize a binocular unless it looks like a porro.

They ain't dead yet! Not by any means!

Bob

I was referring to the alpha porro's like Nikon 8x32 SE. There was always be cheap porros and reverse porro's because they are cheaper to make than roofs. My point is Nikon 8x32 SE's and EII's are probably never going to be improved upon because the manufacturers are concentrating on roofs. They have reached the pinnacle of their evolution.

 

[typo]

Brock,

The Habicht and Opticron SR GA from Brin's list were at the Birdfair last last week, and as far as I could tell, virtually ignored. Loved the view through both, and on a casual look, not much between them, (but the ER on both is a bit short with my glasses).

The Opticron internal focus HRWP is also excellent if you are not troubled by a narrow FOV and seemed to be attracting a bit more attention.

Another porro that quite impressed me was a Steiner. Unfortunately they haven't put their 'neutral', premium, Skyhawk coatings on the porros. Having said that their low UV coated Navigator was a real pleasure to use with so much reflection off the water. For obvious reasons they didn't have their Nighhunter version there.

I was standing next to a first time buyer on a modest budget who was clearly unhappy with the cheap roofs she'd been trying. Passed her the new Opticron (Yosemite) Savanna 8x30... and she bought them. I found that rather encouraging. There might be a future for porros.

David