Armenian gull? Baghdad, January 7, 2022 (1 Viewer)

[bhutjoe]

Hi, is it possible from this one photo to identify this gull? I was thinking it is an Armenian gull but perhaps it is something else? Thank you in advance for comments, corrections and taking the time to look at this photo. It is the only one I have unfortunately. The photo was taken Jan 7 in the middle of Baghdad, with the gull flying along the Tigris near an exposed sand bar in the middle of the river. There are usually around 50 or so black-headed gulls on the sandbar along with 2 to 4 larger gulls.
steve

 

[KenM]

If it isn’t bhutjoe, I’d like to know why, because the primary pattern looks spot on to my eye.

Cheers

 

[lou salomon]

I'm afraid it's not possible to tell with this pic. Any other frames with a more lateral view? While it has a lot of black in wingtip bill seems to lack much black in it. It could also be one of the fuscus-taxa wintering in the region (barabensis and heuglini).

 

[bhutjoe]

Thanks Lou, unfortunately this is the only photo I managed to take that included the gull. But I will keep trying until I get one that can be positively id'd, hopefully.
Thanks Ken and Lou for taking the time to look and comment. I have managed to take a few pics of ones standing that have a black ring but previous posts of standing gulls have also not been able to be identified so I have not posted them as I think it would be redundant to do so. Ah well, it is the challenge that makes birding fun
steve

 

[KenM]

I'm afraid it's not possible to tell with this pic. Any other frames with a more lateral view? While it has a lot of black in wingtip bill seems to lack much black in it. It could also be one of the fuscus-taxa wintering in the region (barabensis and heuglini).

That’s interesting Lou, according to Collins, Armenian gull appears to be more widespread as a Winter visitor to Turkey, whereas the fuscus taxa that you mention much less so?
Also the mantle colour on heuglin’s should be darker than the ops bird? Leaving just perhaps Steppe Gull as the only alternative perhaps?
Interesting that the three taxa discussed all have the same primary pattern, that’s what I’d call a real bastard! 😂

 

[bhutjoe]

In reading about the three gulls, a sloping forhead was only mentioned for barabensis. Is that enough to id this gull in this rather poor photo? It does have an extensive black ring around the bill though The photo below was taken on Jan 6, 2022, in the same location along the Tigris in Baghdad.
thanks for taking the time.
steve

 

[lou salomon]

head shapes, especially the often cited sloping forehead is a much overestimated trait in my oinion as it strongly depends on the bird's stance/mood etc and shows a strong intraspecific variation. less so for bill shapes (which still is quite variable). in your last pic, bhutjoe, the short and high bill with quite some black in it would invite identification as Armenian Gull. but still, due to similarities and variation you'd need an open wing shot especially of te underwing to see if it has a long or a short p10 underwing tongue and to note its shape (long, rectangular in barabensis, short and rounded or rectanfular in armenicus), talking about adult birds of course. in the above standing bird i think i can discern a p10 mirror that is devided from the white tip of p10 by only a slim black line - which is better for barabensis than for armenicus. as for mantle shade: in this case I'd exclude heuglini on pale grey mantle but in the flying pic (post 1) this is harder to assess since it is in strong sunlight and no comparison is possible. still heuglini less likely even in that bird (but nonetheless quite hard to differenciate between barabensis and armenicus, imo, although p10 tongue seems to be short.
Ken, we are talking about Baghdad here and not about Turkey. The two fuscus ssp. regularly winter in large numbers in the Persian Gulf area while Armenicus is scarce.

 

[KenM]

Ken, we are talking about Baghdad here and not about Turkey. The two fuscus ssp. regularly winter in large numbers in the Persian Gulf area while Armenicus is scarce.

A-a-a-h….Apologies Lou! Must have been the Xmas association with “Turkey” that caused the lapse of attention! 👍😂

 

[bhutjoe]

Thanks very very much Lou for taking the time to go through the id steps in such detail. Very informative and very helpful. Hopefully I can get such a shot eventually Very much appreciated.
steve

 

[Richard Prior]

Ken, we are talking about Baghdad here and not about Turkey. The two fuscus ssp. regularly winter in large numbers in the Persian Gulf area while Armenicus is scarce.

Don't worry Lou, Ken's Atlas of the World is a bit out of date (lots of British Empire countries in red of course), however anything east of Dover is all Mesopotamia to him