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Atlas listing (2 Viewers)

Thanks, Joanne, it's a difficult call. My instinct is to err on the side of caution and hope that I get better evidence next year.
Lovely brood of little grebes this a.m. I'd say that the 4 chicks had only just come out of their eggs. I was also surprised to hear a willow warbler singing. They are scarce on my patch at the best of times but I've only ever heard them in spring before. I quite often hear chiffchaffs in the autumn, so I suppose it's to be expected.
Common sand gave that autumnal feeling, too.
Ken
 
Hi Ken

I think FL is one of the most difficult codes to apply. The fledged young should be still clearly dependent on the adults, so some sign of adults feeding young would help. I think just seeing a juvenile in an area where you know the adults have been around is a bit weak. Bullfinches are going to be very difficult to prove breeding unless you see a family party with the adults still with the young and ideally providing them food. Bullfinches are late nesting so we are very happy to accept records of confirmed breeding from August (and possibly into September).

Dawn Balmer
 
Thanks, Dawn. I didn't enter the 'FL' code... Jay, bullfinch and marsh tit remain as three species that I have seen quite often but failed to collect more than 'probably breeding' evidence.
Ken
 
We're also struggling with Jay, Curlew and Willow Tit in TL88 - all breed for sure but it's so hard proving it. Ones to concentrate on next summer!

Dawn
 
Question for Dawn and others: I've done two adjacent tetrads with very similar habitats, one this year one last and will do another similar one next season. One is my home tetrad so I've subsequently added loads or roving records as I'm usually here and always looking. Consequently my home tetrad has 26 species as confirmed breeding which I think is pretty good. My other tetrad has a lot fewer, can't remember exactly how many. Question is, do the BTO scientists have some way of levelling things out? What I'm trying to say is that my second tetrad probably has as many species breeding as my home tetrad but fewer records entered so less data. Is this taken into account? This must apply to most atlas recorders who do their home tetrads and I just wondered if this alters data in any significant way.
 
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It's inevitable that you have more data for the tetrad in which you live... mine is just the same with far more species proved breeding and far more species than any other tetrad in my 10km square.
It's probably worth remembering that the BTO is only interested in the 10Km square, not the tetrad. The survey has been designed with that in mind. So a record in your home tetrad 'validates' a record for the atlas.
Of course many counties are using the atlas to do tetrad level surveys within the county. It will presumably be up to individual counties to decide what they want to do with the data. I notice that Sussex is being very proactive and organising outings to target remote tetrads as well as posting provisional maps on the website whereas Surrey is taking a more laid-back approach.
I am sure that there are statistical tecniques for projecting breeding density across the county from specimen tetrads but I would imagine that it's not an exact science. The problem with many surveys is that they show where the observers are rather than where the species are. The best that one can really hope for is the best possible coverage. I'm sure that others know a lot more about this than I.
Ken
 
It's inevitable that you have more data for the tetrad in which you live... mine is just the same with far more species proved breeding and far more species than any other tetrad in my 10km square.
It's probably worth remembering that the BTO is only interested in the 10Km square, not the tetrad. The survey has been designed with that in mind. So a record in your home tetrad 'validates' a record for the atlas.
Of course many counties are using the atlas to do tetrad level surveys within the county. It will presumably be up to individual counties to decide what they want to do with the data. I notice that Sussex is being very proactive and organising outings to target remote tetrads as well as posting provisional maps on the website whereas Surrey is taking a more laid-back approach.
I am sure that there are statistical tecniques for projecting breeding density across the county from specimen tetrads but I would imagine that it's not an exact science. The problem with many surveys is that they show where the observers are rather than where the species are. The best that one can really hope for is the best possible coverage. I'm sure that others know a lot more about this than I.
Ken

Thanks Ken. I was forgetting that the BTO is really only interested in the 10 km squares, partly I guess for these reasons.

Yes, Sussex is proactive. The provisional distributions maps are very interesting and it's nice to see the tetrads I've surveyed coming up with confirmed breeding, as well as all the others of course. I think some abundance maps are in the pipeline so they'll be interesting too.
 
Time to dust this thread down. Anyone else started yet?

Yesterday wasn't ideal on the Fylde but I did a tetrad in deepest Blackpool in the afternoon when it cleared a bit. One or two bits in the small parks including a Mistle Thrush and plenty of Oycs on a flooded school field. Today by contrast I was in the Ribble Valley at Ribchester, plenty of variety including waterfowl on the river and some lovely sunshine at times.

Stephen.
 
Hi Stephen

Glad you hear you're out and about already for the Atlas. The weather here yesterday was dreadful and I finally made it out at 4pm into Thetford Forest for a walk. No new species for the 10-km square though!

Let's hope we get a settled spell and we can get out and do our TTVs. I'm heading out to the Norfolk Fens this winter.

Still plenty of time to get signed up for a tetrad. We really need help in a lot of areas such as Dorset, Montgomeryshire, East Yorkshire - and all of Ireland!

Regards,
Dawn
 
Here is the report of my adventures yesterday, copied from my Nature Diary in my website. Lots of good healthy exercise, but not too many birds. And I'll have to repeat it another three times - can't wait. :eek!:

5th November 2009. 2 TTVs.
It’s time again for another round of Timed Tetrad Visits (TTVs) for the British Trust for Ornithology (BTO) Bird Atlas 2008-2011. The tetrads I have volunteered for this time are all in upper Deeside, and consist mainly of open heather moorland, some pine forest, and lots of burns and streams. Two of them are on Balmoral Estate, in the foothills of Lochnagar, and since I have to go through one to reach the other, I can cover both in one day.
My route started up a steep track, through rocky pine forest, before levelling out and crossing the moor. A few Blue and Coal Tits called in the forest, and a Blackbird sounded its alarm call. A couple of Crossbills flew over. Out on the moor, it was quiet. There was scarcely a breath of wind, and the mist hung low over the tops. Away to the west, I could see patches of fresh snow on the higher Cairngorms. A Carrion Crow barked his displeasure at my intrusion. After a bit of searching, I spotted him, perched on the skyline. Somewhere to my right, a couple of Buzzards were having a mewing match. Then a small flock of Meadow Pipits flew over, calling, before going to ground and vanishing in the heather. I crossed from my first tetrad to my second, all the time reaching further into the hills.
Away in the distance, I could see Gelder Shiel and Bothy, snug in their little stand of pines and larches. I watched through the binoculars as a Range Rover went slowly along the track towards the buildings. Nine Carrion Crows came out of the trees and drifted away across the hillside. The Range Rover came back and passed me. It is nearly half a century since I have been to Gelder Shiel, and arriving there certainly brought back memories. Memories of some scary winter climbs and times on Lochnagar came flooding back. If I’m honest, I don’t deserve to be here today to talk about it. The bothy is now in the care of the Mountain Bothy Association, and gone are the rough cobbled floor and the pony stalls. Now there are bunks, tables and chairs – almost comfortable. The Gelder Shiel itself was locked and shuttered as always of course, since it is one of the Royal Family’s picnic places. I did notice though that there are now solar panels on the roof. As I had my lunch, the crows returned from their trip across the moor and a couple of small birds flew over the trees. I had expected more there. Maybe come next spring there will be.
I retraced my steps for a few hundred metres, and turned off onto another track, before following a narrow path along the stream bank. I was half hoping for a Dipper, but there was no sign of one. A couple of Red Grouse shot out of the heather and flew away cackling. Surprisingly, they were the only ones I was to see all day. The path went past the ruins of two ancient houses. They were surrounded by flat grassy areas by the water’s edge, probably used as summer grazings in days gone by. Two crows sat in an old birch tree. One of them was a Hooded Crow, or at least a Carrion x Hooded hybrid. I couldn’t approach close enough to be absolutely sure. The path deteriorated, and then vanished in a bog. I pressed on, managing to stick my foot into a wet hole. Cold water, soaked up to my knee. Another flock of Meadow Pipits appeared and flew around calling, before landing. By now I was back in my first tetrad. I wanted to spend some more time in the forest, but a towering deer fence was in the way. So I followed along it until I came to an equally high gate. It was padlocked, the wooden bars slippery as soap, and covered in wire mesh. I climbed over carefully, out of consideration for both Her Majesty’s property, and my own safety. The woods were silent and apparently birdless. One more gate later, and I was back on the track by which I had set out, and heading back to the car and a welcome cup of tea.
On the way home, I came across two huge flocks of Fieldfares, totalling some 630 birds. One flock was in a grass field doing nothing very much, and the other was more scattered, raiding rowan trees, constantly on the move. I reported them as Roving Records and got the inevitable “unusually high count” message. Considering the impressive arrival and movement of winter thrushes in Deeside over the last couple of weeks, I don’t think the count was unusually high at all. Still, I suppose these things have to be highlighted, in case of errors.
 
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Here is the report of my adventures yesterday, copied from my Nature Diary in my website. Lots of good healthy exercise, but not too many birds. And I'll have to repeat it another three times - can't wait. :eek!:

5th November 2009. 2 TTVs.
It’s time again for another round of Timed Tetrad Visits (TTVs) for the British Trust for Ornithology (BTO) Bird Atlas 2008-2011. The tetrads I have volunteered for this time are all in upper Deeside, and consist mainly of open heather moorland, some pine forest, and lots of burns and streams. Two of them are on Balmoral Estate, in the foothills of Lochnagar, and since I have to go through one to reach the other, I can cover both in one day.
My route started up a steep track, through rocky pine forest, before levelling out and crossing the moor. A few Blue and Coal Tits called in the forest, and a Blackbird sounded its alarm call. A couple of Crossbills flew over. Out on the moor, it was quiet. There was scarcely a breath of wind, and the mist hung low over the tops. Away to the west, I could see patches of fresh snow on the higher Cairngorms. A Carrion Crow barked his displeasure at my intrusion. After a bit of searching, I spotted him, perched on the skyline. Somewhere to my right, a couple of Buzzards were having a mewing match. Then a small flock of Meadow Pipits flew over, calling, before going to ground and vanishing in the heather. I crossed from my first tetrad to my second, all the time reaching further into the hills.
Away in the distance, I could see Gelder Shiel and Bothy, snug in their little stand of pines and larches. I watched through the binoculars as a Range Rover went slowly along the track towards the buildings. Nine Carrion Crows came out of the trees and drifted away across the hillside. The Range Rover came back and passed me. It is nearly half a century since I have been to Gelder Shiel, and arriving there certainly brought back memories. Memories of some scary winter climbs and times on Lochnagar came flooding back. If I’m honest, I don’t deserve to be here today to talk about it. The bothy is now in the care of the Mountain Bothy Association, and gone are the rough cobbled floor and the pony stalls. Now there are bunks, tables and chairs – almost comfortable. The Gelder Shiel itself was locked and shuttered as always of course, since it is one of the Royal Family’s picnic places. I did notice though that there are now solar panels on the roof. As I had my lunch, the crows returned from their trip across the moor and a couple of small birds flew over the trees. I had expected more there. Maybe come next spring there will be.
I retraced my steps for a few hundred metres, and turned off onto another track, before following a narrow path along the stream bank. I was half hoping for a Dipper, but there was no sign of one. A couple of Red Grouse shot out of the heather and flew away cackling. Surprisingly, they were the only ones I was to see all day. The path went past the ruins of two ancient houses. They were surrounded by flat grassy areas by the water’s edge, probably used as summer grazings in days gone by. Two crows sat in an old birch tree. One of them was a Hooded Crow, or at least a Carrion x Hooded hybrid. I couldn’t approach close enough to be absolutely sure. The path deteriorated, and then vanished in a bog. I pressed on, managing to stick my foot into a wet hole. Cold water, soaked up to my knee. Another flock of Meadow Pipits appeared and flew around calling, before landing. By now I was back in my first tetrad. I wanted to spend some more time in the forest, but a towering deer fence was in the way. So I followed along it until I came to an equally high gate. It was padlocked, the wooden bars slippery as soap, and covered in wire mesh. I climbed over carefully, out of consideration for both Her Majesty’s property, and my own safety. The woods were silent and apparently birdless. One more gate later, and I was back on the track by which I had set out, and heading back to the car and a welcome cup of tea.
On the way home, I came across two huge flocks of Fieldfares, totalling some 630 birds. One flock was in a grass field doing nothing very much, and the other was more scattered, raiding rowan trees, constantly on the move. I reported them as Roving Records and got the inevitable “unusually high count” message. Considering the impressive arrival and movement of winter thrushes in Deeside over the last couple of weeks, I don’t think the count was unusually high at all. Still, I suppose these things have to be highlighted, in case of errors.

A nice report Ken-at least you saw a few birds. I did one upland tetrad on a grim february day last year and manged only buzzard and crow. I have 3 hill tetrads to do and whilst they will be good in spring I suspect the winter visits will be hard going
 
I do remember, about 50 years ago, an account in a birding mag of a winter day's birding in Gaick Forest, Speyside; I think it was by IJF-L and ANOther: their total for the day was one Wren, heard only, then their day was ruined right at the end by a Golden Eagle overhead.
 
I did an upland tetrad yesterday and only had two species. Six Red Grouse and two Stonechat. There were no missed glimpses of birds or unrecognisable calls, that's literally all there was to see or hear. I wasn't disappointed though as the weather was glorious and the scenery just stunning. It took me 5 hours as I have about an hours walk to get to it and then an hours walk back to the car and to get slightly less steep routes I have to go further on and then come back onto the tetrad, plus I had a nice rest and snack at a derelict building.

Having read Ken's excellent report, which I thoroughly enjoyed, I ought to write it all up with photos but I doubt I'll get round to it lol.

TS
 
I did an upland tetrad yesterday and only had two species. Six Red Grouse and two Stonechat. There were no missed glimpses of birds or unrecognisable calls, that's literally all there was to see or hear. I wasn't disappointed though as the weather was glorious and the scenery just stunning. It took me 5 hours as I have about an hours walk to get to it and then an hours walk back to the car and to get slightly less steep routes I have to go further on and then come back onto the tetrad, plus I had a nice rest and snack at a derelict building.

Having read Ken's excellent report, which I thoroughly enjoyed, I ought to write it all up with photos but I doubt I'll get round to it lol.

TS

Come on, don't be shy. I for one would really like to read about it. So please?
 
I was all set to survey my 'new' tetrad this morning.........but I woke up and saw the rain so have put it off; maybe I'll do it tomorrow. This new tetrad is farmland and a golf course. I'll probably get some nice birds but I'm debating with myself about whether to wear a cycling helmet or not!

Tree Sparrow: I'd like to read your report too.
 
Did my first new tetrad today (in the rain, yes Joanne). Not a great deal but it was brightened up by three (3 !) singing Cirl Buntings, which was nice.
 
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