Just been reading reviews in the papers. The Grauniad and Torygraph were positive about it and thought it an affectionate film. Both realised that it portrayed only a subset of the birding world. The Independent in its three line review thought it represented all birders. Typical journo, missing the point!!
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BBC Twitching Documentary (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Garry Bagnell
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In fairness a programme such as this was never going to portray the main characters in a particularly favourable light. Every hobby and pastime will have its more extreme and obsessive individuals, some of which last night's programme inevitably concentrated on. I did find Garry's obsessive interest in who else was going for a particular bird hard to grasp. If he had been in the top 20 listers I could have understood this but being ranked 200th or so it did seem a bit strange to me.
naturistbird
Well-known member
This thread has been HILARIOUS!
Some of the comments are really clever and funny.
I'm sure we shall all be re-watching on Thursday!
Some of the comments are really clever and funny.
I'm sure we shall all be re-watching on Thursday!
Isurus
Well-known member
You were not alone Harry. I wonder how many years it'll be before all english tips have such graceful avifauna.
I twitch because I genuinely want to see the bird. Not just as another number but as a vagrant that has made an incredible journey to be here. Its a part of my overall involvement in birding but to be so obsessed about who else has seen the bird is very strange and suggests the birds are of no consequence - they're just a number and the only enjoyment is to climb further up the list.
To be told on the phone by someone who's not even there that you've been watching the wrong bird is unbeleivable. The words f*ck o** would come to mind. It just shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities.
scienceandsanity
Member
What does one have to do to enter the realms of the 'inner circle' I wonder?
Do the inner circle all get ringed?
Do the inner circle all get ringed?
scienceandsanity
Member
A bit mad??
I've seen twitchers make themselves depressed because someone neglected to nail the bird down and have sleepless nights at the possibility of their slipping down the rankings table (their human worth likewise diminishing).
Guys, pinning your worth and happiness to whether or not a bird shows isn't a good option. Maybe some reassessment is called for (like recalling you have a family for instance). P-r-o-p-o-r-t-i-o-n.
Is it much different to "Dad spent all his time and money in the pub"?
The unexamined life is indeed not worth living.
I've seen twitchers make themselves depressed because someone neglected to nail the bird down and have sleepless nights at the possibility of their slipping down the rankings table (their human worth likewise diminishing).
Guys, pinning your worth and happiness to whether or not a bird shows isn't a good option. Maybe some reassessment is called for (like recalling you have a family for instance). P-r-o-p-o-r-t-i-o-n.
Is it much different to "Dad spent all his time and money in the pub"?
The unexamined life is indeed not worth living.
AndyK
Well-known member
This is something which really struck me last night. Im not a serious 'lister'. I dont submit my list and I never will. I only started out birding this year and to me its an enjoyable hobby not a competition. Im not sure who your 'incompetence' remark was aimed at but I hope it wasn't aimed at new birders. Im constantly learning and am certainly enjoying it.
Nick Elliston
Well-known member
The impression that I got was that a large number of those featured, and not necssarily those with speaking roles, have little interest in the birds themselves and just want a tick. They could just as easily be train spotters etc.
Lee probably did not come across so well, or as he wished, but that is probably a result of editing. I have never met him, but he did at least seem genuinely interested in birds, and not just for the sake of a tick. Garry, I suggest you don't use your mobile whilst driving as I suspect the law might be on the watch for you.
I am glad I'm not a twitcher though.
Lee probably did not come across so well, or as he wished, but that is probably a result of editing. I have never met him, but he did at least seem genuinely interested in birds, and not just for the sake of a tick. Garry, I suggest you don't use your mobile whilst driving as I suspect the law might be on the watch for you.
I am glad I'm not a twitcher though.
What several commentators on here fail to realise is that I had visited the landfill and field area in which the Azorean Gull was frequenting on many occasions and was fully aware of the several lookalikes which were being happily ticked off by all and sundry. Garry had not seen the correct bird prior to my arrival (Lucy captured it on film) and I was keen for him to see the right bird that Ian Lewington had identified before he left the area - that was why I kept emphasising that on the phone.
This case is not unique though as it seems to occur almost every week now as I trek around the country. Purple Herons are a favourite choice and only recently, I turned up at a twitch to find 25 or so observers photographing and watching a very confiding Grey Heron. It did not go down well when I pointed this out.
I may be the self-elected reviewer of claimed rare bird records but I want them to be correct - what is the point of having Slender-billed Curlew type records accepted into the system - and if it means that I have to upset people by making my thoughts be known, then so be it.
This case is not unique though as it seems to occur almost every week now as I trek around the country. Purple Herons are a favourite choice and only recently, I turned up at a twitch to find 25 or so observers photographing and watching a very confiding Grey Heron. It did not go down well when I pointed this out.
I may be the self-elected reviewer of claimed rare bird records but I want them to be correct - what is the point of having Slender-billed Curlew type records accepted into the system - and if it means that I have to upset people by making my thoughts be known, then so be it.
scienceandsanity
Member
Lee Evans how did you come by the percentage of 13 percent of birders being cheats?
How did you define 'birder' for the purposes of determining this figure?
How did you define 'birder' for the purposes of determining this figure?
Science and Sanity
Whether you like it or not, studies and data I have collected over 30 years clearly suggests a margin of error in the region of 13%. This is a combination of birdwatcher's tendency to fabricate records, cover up a misidentification or simply be so incompetent or experienced that the wrong species has been called or identified. For obvious reasons, it would not be a sensible idea to publicize such incidents or name names but in the everyday chore of recording each and every bird of interest, it soon becomes apparent the high level of misidentifications. Any given day will throw up several and the proof of the pudding is often when photographs of said birds are publicised on the net. For example, the level of incompetence involving birds of prey is simply mind-blowing - British birders are just no good at it. The European Honey Buzzard is probably the most misidentified species of all - and we are not just talking of inexperienced people here but many of particularly well acknowledged pedigrees. Only last autumn, 27 such photographed birds on the internet were found to be misidentified and Caspian Gulls are a total minefield.
Before I enter a record on to my database I want it to be genuine and I take it upon myself to chase up and check out those sightings I believe may be erroneous. Not only that, typing mistakes by Information Services are often not corrected and there is the famous case recently of a Waxham Red-breasted Flycatcher which was mis-released - and actually related to a Red-flanked Bluetail - but nevertheless birders still saw the flycatcher. What is that all about?
Whether you like it or not, studies and data I have collected over 30 years clearly suggests a margin of error in the region of 13%. This is a combination of birdwatcher's tendency to fabricate records, cover up a misidentification or simply be so incompetent or experienced that the wrong species has been called or identified. For obvious reasons, it would not be a sensible idea to publicize such incidents or name names but in the everyday chore of recording each and every bird of interest, it soon becomes apparent the high level of misidentifications. Any given day will throw up several and the proof of the pudding is often when photographs of said birds are publicised on the net. For example, the level of incompetence involving birds of prey is simply mind-blowing - British birders are just no good at it. The European Honey Buzzard is probably the most misidentified species of all - and we are not just talking of inexperienced people here but many of particularly well acknowledged pedigrees. Only last autumn, 27 such photographed birds on the internet were found to be misidentified and Caspian Gulls are a total minefield.
Before I enter a record on to my database I want it to be genuine and I take it upon myself to chase up and check out those sightings I believe may be erroneous. Not only that, typing mistakes by Information Services are often not corrected and there is the famous case recently of a Waxham Red-breasted Flycatcher which was mis-released - and actually related to a Red-flanked Bluetail - but nevertheless birders still saw the flycatcher. What is that all about?
Mark Newsome
Born to seawatch...
I sometimes have sleepless nights with the prospect of exciting birding and what the next day will bring when the weather is 'spot on'. And without a rarity in sight! And my happiness on a day is often dependant on whether I've connected with the best local bird of the year. And I choose not to have kids as they would change my lifestyle/birding too much (and my missus feels the same before I'm accused of being a selfish ****).
So much said on here is just personal opinion from those trying to climb up to the moral high ground and perch on the top seat. People are being judged from a few minutes snapshot of edited film, twisted to provide the most 'entertaining' and controversial TV. Yes, the people concerned agreed to be in the programme and that opens them up for criticism/ridicule, but people on BF shouldn't judge a families morals or an individuals life on the crap thats shown/talked about which on the whole, is wholly inaccurate bullsh*t.
People want to shoot LGRE down no matter what he says and does. In my dealings with him, he's always been polite, couteous and very helpful. Totally manic and obsessive too, but without characters like Lee, birding/twitching would just involve rows of faceless sheep.
And yes, he's right about the current degree of incompetance. Blatently obvious in many areas.
Mark
I'm with you Phil W on this one. I rarely go twitching these days but do enjoy seeing the occasional rarity for what it is. For example whenever I see a Pallas's Warbler I am always in awe of how far such a small bird has come to get here. Not being an active lister, I have no interest in who else happens to see a rarity unless of course they are my birding friends. A recurring theme here seems to be the number of people who used to go twitching but have now lapsed. As you get older you come to realise that there are more important things in life than how long a list different people have....
TWM
Well-known member
I too enjoyed the programme and it was what I expected. No surprises, Lee came across as only Lee can----my sister (a non birder) likened him to the Bernie Ecclestone of birdwatching!! Don't know if that is praise or not!
My wife did not think Mya was enjoying it quite as much as her parents seemed to think, but at least Mya was getting out and about and not sitting in front of a computer or watching rubbish on the TV (Whoops, what am I saying!!!).
I don't think Gary came out if it very well though.
My wife did not think Mya was enjoying it quite as much as her parents seemed to think, but at least Mya was getting out and about and not sitting in front of a computer or watching rubbish on the TV (Whoops, what am I saying!!!).
I don't think Gary came out if it very well though.
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Robert L Jarvis
Robert L Jarvis
I would just like to say that I have met Lee in the field a number of times and at the Birdfair. Each time I have found him to be fine and easy to converse with. I and my wife use to twitch in this country but ceased when we became retired, just could not afford the fuel. In addition if I had seen the birds in our holidays abroad did not pursue them here.
As for the Pacific Swift at Cley I was there on that day and although it was some time ago, think I can recall Lee being there.
As for the Pacific Swift at Cley I was there on that day and although it was some time ago, think I can recall Lee being there.
Helsinki Birder
Stealth Birder
Its a hard call to make.
Myself and My brother have been birding since early childhood, as our father is heavily into birds and wildlife.
We would often be woken up early on a sunday morning to go for a birding walk somewhere. We did not always enjoy it. But years later I cherish the good basis in wildlife our father gave us.
Should the vasectomy not take
, or illegitimates track me down some day, Ill do the same and make sure the kiddies enjoy the world around them...when they get old enough that they REALLY obviously don't want to go birding then fair enough.
Fair play to the Craigs for showing their child good birds! Who knows which will be extinct when she is middle aged? How often have I been out birding in ireland, to meet some old timer lamenting that they don't hear corncrakes like they did in their youth......
Owen
Myself and My brother have been birding since early childhood, as our father is heavily into birds and wildlife.
We would often be woken up early on a sunday morning to go for a birding walk somewhere. We did not always enjoy it. But years later I cherish the good basis in wildlife our father gave us.
Should the vasectomy not take
, or illegitimates track me down some day, Ill do the same and make sure the kiddies enjoy the world around them...when they get old enough that they REALLY obviously don't want to go birding then fair enough.Fair play to the Craigs for showing their child good birds! Who knows which will be extinct when she is middle aged? How often have I been out birding in ireland, to meet some old timer lamenting that they don't hear corncrakes like they did in their youth......
Owen
scienceandsanity
Member
[QUOTE=Lee Evans;1968
"Whether you like it or not, studies and data I have collected over 30 years clearly suggests a margin of error in the region of 13%".
What I don't like is people making bold and unsubstantiated claims. It's a very grandiose claim to make.
"This is a combination of birdwatcher's tendency to fabricate records, cover up a misidentification or simply be so incompetent or experienced that the wrong species has been called or identified"
Not cheating alone then? How does incompetence inevitably make someone a cheat?
Being a beginner or insufficiently experienced isn't a crime Lee, you started from scratch some years ago just like everyone else. Error isn't necessarily cheating.
It seems plausible some might argue the validity of their observation in fear of the political aftermath; besides who likes to be labelled 'cheat'? They are potentially being tarred with that label even if their original claim lacked any intention to deceive.
You suggested more than one in ten observers (however you operationalise the concept) deliberately cheats. You then offered up some anecdotes as substantiation for the claim.
"Any given day will throw up several and the proof of the pudding is often when photographs of said birds are publicised on the net. What is that all about?"
Not exactly sure, however I wouldn't dismiss the observers outright as 'cheats' as it's very demeaning, presumptuous and insulting to do so.
You made these claims on television Lee and they appear anecdotal. Let's suppose your local observations are accurate, how does that extrapolate to the wider population?
"Whether you like it or not, studies and data I have collected over 30 years clearly suggests a margin of error in the region of 13%".
What I don't like is people making bold and unsubstantiated claims. It's a very grandiose claim to make.
"This is a combination of birdwatcher's tendency to fabricate records, cover up a misidentification or simply be so incompetent or experienced that the wrong species has been called or identified"
Not cheating alone then? How does incompetence inevitably make someone a cheat?
Being a beginner or insufficiently experienced isn't a crime Lee, you started from scratch some years ago just like everyone else. Error isn't necessarily cheating.
It seems plausible some might argue the validity of their observation in fear of the political aftermath; besides who likes to be labelled 'cheat'? They are potentially being tarred with that label even if their original claim lacked any intention to deceive.
You suggested more than one in ten observers (however you operationalise the concept) deliberately cheats. You then offered up some anecdotes as substantiation for the claim.
"Any given day will throw up several and the proof of the pudding is often when photographs of said birds are publicised on the net. What is that all about?"
Not exactly sure, however I wouldn't dismiss the observers outright as 'cheats' as it's very demeaning, presumptuous and insulting to do so.
You made these claims on television Lee and they appear anecdotal. Let's suppose your local observations are accurate, how does that extrapolate to the wider population?
Larry Sweetland
Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
OH no. Just seen this on TV yesterday. How deeply embarassing. Some of my workmates saw it too and are taking the piss properly today. So glad I don't twitch in Britain any more, I'd no idea it had got quite this sad. I understand how some posts appear on the rare bird section of BF better now.
I think this film will have definitely put the kiss of death on getting any new generation of kids into birding. Nice one. At least my girlfriend was relieved that things could actually have been worse.
What a shame that a bigger cross section of twitchers weren't involved.
I think this film will have definitely put the kiss of death on getting any new generation of kids into birding. Nice one. At least my girlfriend was relieved that things could actually have been worse.
What a shame that a bigger cross section of twitchers weren't involved.
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