Bean Goose group (1 Viewer)

[Farnboro John]

According to some authorities, that Ince (adjective 'Incy') is just a synonym of Its (adjective 'Itsy').

Nothing is straightforward nowadays!

John

 

[l_raty]

According to some authorities, that Ince (adjective 'Incy') is just a synonym of Its (adjective 'Itsy').

But isn't that Its junior to Ince?
I think the correct OS is Tine (adj. tiny), with Teene (teeny) a subsequent spelling, presumably later emended into Teense (teensy), then Ince (incy), and finally Its (itsy)...
No?

 

[Richard Klim]

D'oh!

 

[MJB]

But isn't that Its junior to Ince?
I think the correct OS is Tine (adj. tiny), with Teene (teeny) a subsequent spelling, presumably later emended into Teense (teensy), then Ince (incy), and finally Its (itsy)...
No?

Game, Set, Match and Championship to Laurent! Glad Laurent didn't act as First Reviser...:t::-O:king:
MJB

 

[Paul Clapham]

And there's an Ince worm too, isn't there?

 

[l_raty]

Melanonyx segetum anadyrensis Buturlin, 1908. (OD in Наша охота ["Nascha Okhota"], "Our hunting", again a hunting magazine; not seen by me.)
Based on a male shot on 11 July 1902, in coll. Menzbir.
Type locality given by Buturlin & Dement'ev 1935 as "Post Novo-Mariniskiy"; in Anadyr, but I'm not clear where exactly.
This is, again, a pink-and-black-billed bird (see Buturlin 1934).

[OD]; [type specimen]; thanks to Mark Brown.

(In "modernized" Russian, the text would read:

"Melanonix segetum anadyrensis nov. subsp., анадырский гуменник. Гнездится, очевидно, на Анадыре, где 29 мая и 7 июня 1902 г. три экз. добыты у поста Ново-Мариинского г. Сокольниковым, и описаны С. Н. Алфераки под именем M. s. serrirostris. Так как все три экз. (из них пара хотя взрослых, но не старых, должна быть пере-годовалых птиц) отличаются от прекрасно мне известного M. serrirostris Якутской области не только совершенно другой окраской клюва, но и большим числом зубцов верхней челюсти, и даже слегка большими в среднем размерами, то я не вижу возможности подводит эту птицу под наименование M. serrirostris: о ношение тут похожее - только разница еще больше - с отношением новоземельского гуменника к M. segetum."​

No holotype designation, the taxon appears to be based on a type series that includes three syntypes obtained as the "Post Novo-Mariinsky", Anadyr, between 29 May and 7 June 1902 by NP Sokol'nikov; these were described by SN Alferaki under the name rossicus, but Buturlin disagreed with this ID. He says the bill colour differs (but doesn't actually say what it is); there is a larger number of "teeth" on the upper mandible; size is on average slightly larger.
Buturlin's 1934 statement that the bird in Menzbir's collection is the type amounts to a lectotype designation [assuming this bird was an original syntype].)

 

[Richard Klim]

TiF

John Boyd (TiF):
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html (24 Apr 2016)
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List1a.html#anatidae

 

[Mohamed Amezian]

"Anser neglectus"

Van Impe, J. 2019. The mystery of Anser neglectus Sushkin, 1897. Victim of the Tunguska disaster? A Hungarian story. Ornis Hungarica 27(2): 20-58. doi:10.2478/orhu-2019-0014

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Van Impe, J. 2019. The mystery of Anser neglectus Sushkin, 1897. Victim of the Tunguska disaster? A Hungarian story. Ornis Hungarica 27(2): 20-58. doi:10.2478/orhu-2019-0014

:t:

Thanks Mohamed,

very interesting.

 

[jalid]

Yes, it is interesting. When the amount of effort put in this study is quite large, it is surprising that nothing is told us about remaining museum material of neglectus type. There should be quite lot, and a fresh study on their measurements, and comparison to other Bean Goose types should not be too difficult. And of course, a genetic study is needed.

 

[Nutcracker]

Strikes me as decidedly fanciful that the entire population of this hypothesized Tunguska-breeding goose should (a) migrate so far west from the Tunguska area (rather than a much shorter migration SE to China), and (b) that the Tunguska meteorite could (almost 'maliciously'!) single out and eradicate the whole population. The area flattened was large, but compared to the vastness of the Siberian taiga, it is little more than a pinprick: the cited 2150 km² area destroyed is a circle only about 50 km diameter.

Far more likely that the geese wintering in Hungary came a much shorter distance from somewhere in western Russia and died out due to overhunting and habitat loss (perhaps associated with changes following the Russian revolution?).

 

[MJB]

Van Impe, J. 2019. The mystery of Anser neglectus Sushkin, 1897. Victim of the Tunguska disaster? A Hungarian story. Ornis Hungarica 27(2): 20-58. doi:10.2478/orhu-2019-0014

I know that Jacques van Impe has been working on this mystery goose for at least 3 decades. I had correspondence with him on another goose in 1993-1995 in which he mentioned it; I also had a little correspondence with Karel Voous in late 1995 on another matter, which included mention of Jacques' text in the EBCC Atlas, then in the final draft stage. The above paper reflects the patience and detail for which Jacques van Impe is famous, some might say notorious, but I found him most helpful. He has a long track record of successful trawling through immense piles of literature and extracting valuable insights.

I'm really glad he's managed to publish this fascinating paper.
MJB

 

[Jacana]

Ottenburghs, J., Honka, J., Müskens, G.J.D.M. & Ellegren, H. Recent introgression between Taiga Bean Goose and Tundra Bean Goose results in a largely homogeneous landscape of genetic differentiation. Heredity (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41437-020-0322-z

Several studies have uncovered a highly heterogeneous landscape of genetic differentiation across the genomes of closely related species. Specifically, genetic differentiation is often concentrated in particular genomic regions (“islands of differentiation”) that might contain barrier loci contributing to reproductive isolation, whereas the rest of the genome is homogenized by introgression. Alternatively, linked selection can produce differentiation islands in allopatry without introgression. We explored the influence of introgression on the landscape of genetic differentiation in two hybridizing goose taxa: the Taiga Bean Goose (Anser fabalis) and the Tundra Bean Goose (A. serrirostris). We re-sequenced the whole genomes of 18 individuals (9 of each taxon) and, using a combination of population genomic summary statistics and demographic modeling, we reconstructed the evolutionary history of these birds. Next, we quantified the impact of introgression on the build-up and maintenance of genetic differentiation. We found evidence for a scenario of allopatric divergence (about 2.5 million years ago) followed by recent secondary contact (about 60,000 years ago). Subsequent introgression events led to high levels of gene flow, mainly from the Tundra Bean Goose into the Taiga Bean Goose. This scenario resulted in a largely undifferentiated genomic landscape (genome-wide FST = 0.033) with a few notable differentiation peaks that were scattered across chromosomes. The summary statistics indicated that some peaks might contain barrier loci while others arose in allopatry through linked selection. Finally, based on the low genetic differentiation, considerable morphological variation and incomplete reproductive isolation, we argue that the Taiga and the Tundra Bean Goose should be treated as subspecies.

 

[Nutcracker]

Ottenburghs, J., Honka, J., Müskens, G.J.D.M. & Ellegren, H. Recent introgression between Taiga Bean Goose and Tundra Bean Goose results in a largely homogeneous landscape of genetic differentiation. Heredity (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41437-020-0322-z

Several studies have uncovered a highly heterogeneous landscape of genetic differentiation across the genomes of closely related species. Specifically, genetic differentiation is often concentrated in particular genomic regions (“islands of differentiation”) that might contain barrier loci contributing to reproductive isolation, whereas the rest of the genome is homogenized by introgression. Alternatively, linked selection can produce differentiation islands in allopatry without introgression. We explored the influence of introgression on the landscape of genetic differentiation in two hybridizing goose taxa: the Taiga Bean Goose (Anser fabalis) and the Tundra Bean Goose (A. serrirostris). We re-sequenced the whole genomes of 18 individuals (9 of each taxon) and, using a combination of population genomic summary statistics and demographic modeling, we reconstructed the evolutionary history of these birds. Next, we quantified the impact of introgression on the build-up and maintenance of genetic differentiation. We found evidence for a scenario of allopatric divergence (about 2.5 million years ago) followed by recent secondary contact (about 60,000 years ago). Subsequent introgression events led to high levels of gene flow, mainly from the Tundra Bean Goose into the Taiga Bean Goose. This scenario resulted in a largely undifferentiated genomic landscape (genome-wide FST = 0.033) with a few notable differentiation peaks that were scattered across chromosomes. The summary statistics indicated that some peaks might contain barrier loci while others arose in allopatry through linked selection. Finally, based on the low genetic differentiation, considerable morphological variation and incomplete reproductive isolation, we argue that the Taiga and the Tundra Bean Goose should be treated as subspecies.

Twitter summary by Ottenburghs on this paper:
https://twitter.com/Jente_O/status/1265241035241918465

 

[TomDerutter]

TiF treats Bean Geese as 3 species:

Middendorf's Bean-Goose, Anser middendorffii (inc. johanseni)
Taiga Bean-Goose, Anser fabalis (monotypic)
Tundra Bean-Goose, Anser serrirostris (inc. rossicus)

based on:

According to Ruokonen and Aarvak (2011), the sister taxa johanseni and middendorffii were basal to both

Ottenburghs et al. (2016) does not include Middendorf's Bean-Goose and does not match up well with Ruokonen and Aarvak (2011)

so genetic data on middendorffii is lacking?

This study:

However, the morphology of the eastern Bean Goose taxa (A. s. serrirostris and A. f. middendorfii) will need to be assessed to obtain a complete picture of morphological variation within the Bean Goose complex

I would think it interesting to see genetic data on them as well?

 

[mb1848]

Anser serrirostris Gould, 1852. (OD in The Literary Gazette, 1836: 306;

Here is it online:
https://www.google.com/books/editio...al_of_the/-0M90LtotaoC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Anser .
It is a report of a meeting where Mr. Bartlett approves Gould's name Anser serrirostris. But from where? MS?

 

[l_raty]

Here is it online:
https://www.google.com/books/editio...al_of_the/-0M90LtotaoC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Anser .
It is a report of a meeting where Mr. Bartlett approves Gould's name Anser serrirostris. But from where? MS?

Thanks Mark.
As I understand it, Gould's paper describing the bird was read before Bartlett approved the validity of the species:

ZOOLOGICAL.--March 23rd.--Professor Owen Vice President in the chair. The papers read were:-- [...] 4. 'On a new species of Goose from China, collected by the late Lieut. Ince at Shanghai,' by John Gould, Esq., F.R.S. This goose resembles the Grey Lag Goose, Anser ferus, in the form of the bill, but the upper and under mandibles, together with their terminal points, are black, and there is a light coloured space or bar between the nostrils and the end of the bill. In the general colour of the plumage the bird has a strong resemblance to the Bean Goose, Anser segetum; it differs, however, from this last in size, and by its thick and powerful bill, which is further characterised by being unusually strongly serrated. Mr Bartlett, who had made a special study of the Geese, fully confirmed Mr Gould's opinion of the specific value of the bird in question, and the author proposed to distinguish it by the name Anser serrirostris. [...]

Interestingly, this description did not make it at all into the PZS covering the same meeting: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/30680680.

 

[Nutcracker]

Citation I've seen is The Zoologist 10: 3466 (1852).

 

[mb1848]

All answers hidden in the non-digital Some problems in vertebrate nomenclature II Birds
https://www.researchgate.net/public...problems_in_vertebrate_nomenclature_I_Mammals .
I have a hunch the Gray brothers interfered with publication since John Matthew Robert Ince was Nephew of British Museum zoologist John Edward Gray

 

[l_raty]

Citation I've seen is The Zoologist 10: 3466 (1852).

This issue of the Literary Gazette bears the date "Saturday, March 27, 1852".
I don't known if the dates of the Zoologist are precisely known, but a note dated "Charlton, Dundrum, near Dublin, April 14, 1852", appears two pages ahead of the description. (The name must have been published there after this date, plus the time needed for a letter to reach London from Ireland, plus the time needed to have it printed in the journal.)

The two texts seem identical.