Bird of prey, Italian Alps (1 Viewer)

[TomMalcC]

Saw this from Rifugio Champillon, above Aosta, Italy earlier this week. Was told by a local farmer this was a 'gxxxxx?? falcon' - didn't quite understand what he was saying.

Can anyone id?

Thanks

TomC

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Tom,

I agree with the farmer. The choice is between the similar Common and Lesser Kestrel.

(When identifying a falcon its often good to think its a Kestrel and only then thinking why it isnt one, with Hobby and Peregrine the next common species in many parts of central Europe. Yes, thats a very rough rule of thumb, but I hope this is helpful)

Location favours Common Kestrel, but for excluding the rarer Lesser Kestrel with confidence better wait for others. Thanks from me too!

 

[TomMalcC]

Hello Tom,

I agree with the farmer. The choice is between the similar Common and Lesser Kestrel.

(When identifying a falcon its often good to think its a Kestrel and only then thinking why it isnt one, with Hobby and Peregrine the next common species in many parts of central Europe. Yes, thats a very rough rule of thumb, but I hope this is helpful)

Location favours Common Kestrel, but for excluding the rarer Lesser Kestrel with confidence better wait for others. Thanks from me too!

Thanks Alexander, that's really helpful.

It didn't seem to have the 'hovering' style of a kestrel, rather seemed to drift on the breeze.

Tom

 

[tconzemi]

Common by wing formula

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Heavy barring on remiges, P7 looks equal to P10, and central tail feathers don't extend obviously - looks fine for tinnunculus.

edit cross-post with Tom

 

[Butty]

central tail feathers don't extend obviously

A long-debunked 'feature'.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

A long-debunked 'feature'.

Interesting, I wasn't aware - do you have a reference or example please Butty?

 

[Patudo]

Was told by a local farmer this was a 'gxxxxx?? falcon'

A quick google suggests that the Italian name for kestrel is gheppio.

 

[PYRTLE]

A long-debunked 'feature'.

What always surprises me is that these type of features were considered visually diagnostic for many decades before modern scientific methods proved otherwise ; and were put up by the most authorities ornithologists at the time. It was certainly relevant when I first travelled to the Mediterranean in the 70s. How times change.

 

[KenM]

What always surprises me is that these type of features were considered visually diagnostic for many decades before modern scientific methods proved otherwise ; and were put up by the most authorities ornithologists at the time. It was certainly relevant when I first travelled to the Mediterranean in the 70s. How times change.

FWIW, a BRW was found at Canary Wharf Oct ‘01, it was ID’d primarily on pp being half the overlying tertial length, longer UTC’s, also agility and movement in the trees to be more Phyllosc like (agile), unlike RW.
According to Lit. at the time, a dark tip to the bill and concolourous upper-parts were almost mandatory, it had neither of these features what’s more, it’s rump when seen (only the once) was “warm”.
Does make you wonder how many other “requisite gems” are out there? 😮

 

[Rotherbirder]

Interesting, I wasn't aware - do you have a reference or example please Butty?

Not 'debunked' as such but neither Forsman (Raptors of Europe and the Middle East) nor Duivendijk (Advanced Bird ID Handbook: the Western Palearctic) mention the feature as a diagnostic identification criterion. These 'omissions' are probably telling.

RB

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Not 'debunked' as such but neither Forsman (Raptors of Europe and the Middle East) nor Duivendijk (Advanced Bird ID Handbook: the Western Palearctic) mention the feature as a diagnostic identification criterion. These 'omissions' are probably telling.

RB

Thanks RB - that's useful, I must admit I hadn't checked in those two books. I will remove the tail feature from my annotated Collin's guide!