Bird watching vs Ornithology (2 Viewers)

[pemburung]

An ornithologist I think is generally thought of as someone who studies birds exclusively, as a career, for the science of the birds themselves. Thus, a dedicated birder who has a job (or may be retired or independently wealthy, although this was a little different many years ago when pretty much all scientists were independently wealthy), who spends all his spare hours, plenty of money, and may even be an authority on some particular subject, wouldn't be considered an onrithologist but would be considered a bird expert. Along the same lines, well-known studiers of birds, such as Lorenz and even Jared Diamond may not be ornithologists as their main interest is behavior, animal distribution, physiology etc and the birds they study are merely vehicles to understanding that aspect of science. Plenty of scientists, from zoologists to anatomists, are paid to study birds at some stage of their career, but that doesn't make them an ornithologist, although what the may be doing is onrnithology. And similarly an "amateur" may be involved in ornithological endeavours, studies or the like; and a zoology graduate student may take a job for a year helping an ornithologist with a study; neither are, yet, ornithologists.

But does it matter? Darwin was not an evolutionary biologist, as the discipline hadn't been invented then, Jesus wasn't a Christian, the Buddha wasn't a Buddhist, etc. But they all did significant things that lasted, and benefited and advanced the knowledge of their areas of interest. Seems OK to me, whatever they are called. And don't let anyone tell you just what about birding you should or shouldn't enjoy, or is fine to do. It's your life.

Cheers, and happy birwitching.

 

[the bird]

And don't let anyone tell you just what about birding you should or shouldn't enjoy, or is fine to do. It's your life.

Cheers, and happy birwitching.

B***dy twitcher!!!!

 

[Edward woodwood]

i'm a biologist / ecologist and have been employed in the past to study birds

plus i have birded in many places

and i used to twitch when youthful and dafter than i am now

so ornithologist, birder and permanently phased (lapsed) twitcher for me...

on another note:
the barrier between dude and twitcher is getting narrower all the time though...

 

[jurek]

Is there a division between watching birds and studying birds?

I worked as ornithologist for some time, but now I am only a casual birdwatcher/twitcher. So I think I can tell about both.

Ornithology is a science. If you write something about birds, which is printed in a journal which is peer-reviewed, you are a ornithologist. If not, you are birdwatcher or birder. Most ornithologists are also birders.

There are lots of branches of ornithology. Studies of bird social systems, bird evolution, bird migration, bird distribution, voices etc.

Some things are on borderline between birdwatching and ornithology. Eg. my friends went birdwatching to Iran and saw some birds little known from that country. Iran is very poorly known ornithologically, so they published it as ornithology.

Ornithologists often use birdwatchers to collect data - like bird counts. This way birdwatchers advance science. I feel, ornithologists owe big collective "Thank you!" for that and usually print thanks in their papers.

Some people ask: "Is ornithologist more important than birdwatcher?" My answer: NO, you cannot compare. Ornithology is a science, profession, while birdwatching is a hobby. To compare, ask what birdwatcher does at work and what ornithologist does in his/her spare time.

Some people asked: "Should average birdwatcher try to become ornithologist?" My answer: NO. Studying birds doesn't harm. But note, that birds in Europe and N.America are studied since long time. It is becoming difficult to find something which average person can study in her/his spare time and is of real interest for science. You can usually do much more by cooperating with or supporting GOOD bird study and protection done by other people. Or you can do something good or great in completely other field.

 

[steve55]

I think this post is starting to drift from the original question.

I was never looking for definition of ornithology or a comparison between bird watching and ornithology.

I believe I may have used the term ornithology a little too loosely, with my original meaning intended to indicate some sort of study of birds, not specifically in an academic context in any form of study however casual .

Do people actively spend time learning about other aspects of birds i.e. the biology, the ecology, the behaviour etc rather than just the identification.

Do both go hand in hand for the majority of people or like in my own academic experience (people have extensively studied but have little ability to id) are there people out there that only have time for ticks and don’t really want to know about the rest.

So essentially do people take the time to study the birds they watch?

But again like someone said earlier I’m sure there’s a different answer for every person on this forum although generally its looking like people do!

 

[James Lowther]

Most birders get pleasure out of watching and learning about birds - most birders also get pleasure out of seeing new birds. For some people the former totally outweighs the latter, for some it's the other way round, but I honestly don't believe there are many people at these extremes?
James

 

[Motmot]

I like this thread but think the Bird World is big enough for all of us to feel we are in. Just check my family. My brother, he is an ornithologist working in National Parks in Spain. I´m
just the birder at home, but if you ask any of my family members (including my brother) or friends who is the bird expert they say it´s me! They know I´ve been crazy about birds since I was 9 years old, all day out birding when there´s time for it, travelling abroad to learn more and finally moving for five years to Costa Rica to get deep involved in learning about central american birds, the ones that I decided to be my favs. My brother has never been this hooked, he´s just a simple ornithologist!
I do bird ringing, censuses, bird population surveys and many more bird related stuff but I´m not an ornithologist, just a birder!

 

[Katy Penland]

I do bird ringing, censuses, bird population surveys and many more bird related stuff but I´m not an ornithologist, just a birder!

Me, too, Motmot!

There's a term here in the US, perhaps used elsewhere too, that I think has been wrongly usurped by many general birders, and that is "field ornithologist." Over the years, I've heard naturalists and bird-walk leaders call themselves this perhaps out of ignorance of the scientific/educational connotation inherent in the term "ornithologist" (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt); some certainly use it out of self-importance.

Possibly to help bridge the gap between the keen "birder" who helps gather data in various ways and the trained "ornithologist" who will eventually use those data is a term that Cornell U and Audubon came up with a long time ago called "citizen science." I think it's a great term, gives the enthusiastic birder a chance to contribute in a meaningful way to several ongoing research projects, encourages birders to undertake more study on their own, and gives them a sense of community. So if I must give myself a classification, I guess it would be "citizen scientist," although I really prefer just plain ol' "birder."

 

[Tero]

I still would avoid the term, even if some are thinking of themselves as amateur bird scientists.

Our Audubon has set up a Master Naturalist program in partnership with St Louis Community College. A few people have taken it.

As to the original question, I certainly take my time to see what I can see. Even Starlings can hold my interest if there is nothing else to watch. It is not just about lists.

 

[StevieEvans]

I've probably said this before but anyway - ornithology/birding/twitching = science/pastime/sport.

This is as good a summary as youre gonna get Steve55.
SE

 

[ColinD]

A birder and an ornithologist are two seperate entities, and I wouldn't necesserily rank either above the other. A good birder can be equally as knowledgable as an ornithologist, just in different areas.

It's a bit like some ringers who I know, who confess to having almost lost the art of identifying birds in the field. Perhaps it's the same with an ornithologist. He / she can give a detailed, expert account of a particular species or group, but perhaps the birder has a better knowledge of more species, and perhaps even can see things which the ornithologist can't see, such as jizz. A degree can never replace 30 years experience in the field.

As for myself, I'm definately not an ornithologist, I definately do not study birds but I'm also not a tick hunter. I'm in it for the aesthetics. I don't mean the wonder of bird flight etc., I mean the overall painting, i.e. the right bird in the right place in beautiful scenary, where the bird is just part of the painting. Therefore I love places like Lindisfarne, Hilbre Island, North Wales, Scotland, North Norfolk etc., and when I go to those places I mainly want to see the species which I should see there, e.g. Geese, Ducks, waders, sea birds etc., but also migrants, because they're part of it too.

But we're all complicated creatures, and as a database analyst, it's a passion with me to record things, and I like observing trends, and I like things to be consistant and patterns repeated. So I guess in that respect I do study birds, but not their behaviour, it's more to do with arrival dates of migrants and numbers at a breeding colony etc. However, I'm not doing that for any other purpose than because I enjoy doing it.

Colin

 

[David Pedder]

As for myself, I'm definately not an ornithologist, I definately do not study birds but I'm also not a tick hunter. I'm in it for the aesthetics. I don't mean the wonder of bird flight etc., I mean the overall painting, i.e. the right bird in the right place in beautiful scenary, where the bird is just part of the painting. Therefore I love places like Lindisfarne, Hilbre Island, North Wales, Scotland, North Norfolk etc., and when I go to those places I mainly want to see the species which I should see there, e.g. Geese, Ducks, waders, sea birds etc., but also migrants, because they're part of it too.
Colin

"I mean the overall painting."

This, to me, is what it is all about. The very essence of birding.

 

[steve west]

Twitcher, birder, ornithologist. I've been all three at some time in my life and while i prefer the label of birder I don't think any of them should be deified. "Twitcher" for obvious reasons, but also "ornithologist": in my opinion the major fault you might find with an ornithologist is his lack of committment towards the species he is studying.
E.g. Catching and Satellite-tracking Bonelli's Eagles while letting another nearby Bonelli's Eagle die from starvation because her mate has perished. Easy to solve with a few partridges or rabbits a week, but "that's not my concern".

Just an example!

 

[Jos Stratford]

Have any of us collected and tabulated migration patterns to use for assessing any patterns over so many years?

Would you like me to send you the 160 page report detailing occurance and migration patterns for the last seven years for every species I've recorded at my local patch? Done purely for myself mind you, as there are no other birders in this country to read it!

 

[Stuart Watson]

I`m a watcher and ticker and i don`t scientifically study birds, but i do like particuarlly with crows to `study` and note any odd behaviour that i witness first hand.
I wouldn`t say i`m an ornithologist, but i like ornithology. :h?:
I bet many `ornithologists` are hopeless at identity and vice versa.

 

[crispycreme]

If we're talking semantics, then I have a question. Why do we allow "amateur astronomers" but not "amateur ornithologists"? Is there a significant difference between the suffixes "-onomy" and "-ology"? If the word "astronomy" equates to the study of the universe as the word "ornithology" equates to the study of birds, then one might think that there could be such a thing as a non-professionial ornithologist.

 

[Katy Penland]

Good point, Crispy! Usually the addition of "amateur" in front of any field infers the person doesn't make a living at it. Only problem I'd have is that the opposite of "amateur" is, in this case "professional ornithologist" and I don't think that term is ever used. Or is it?

"Amateur photographer," for instance, means that less than 50% of one's income is derived from photography; or to be more precise, "professional photographer" means that more than 50% of one's income is from photography (per AMPA definitions last time I checked, anyway).

However, if this rule were to apply to "amateur ornithologists," then if by virtue of my sole income being a contract counting birds for the US Forest Service, any year that would occur I could consider myself a "professional ornithologist."

Just having a bit of fun here, since I don't care one way or another about what I'm called, which is really just a plain ol' birder.

 

[Andrew]

Would you like me to send you the 160 page report detailing occurance and migration patterns for the last seven years for every species I've recorded at my local patch? Done purely for myself mind you, as there are no other birders in this country to read it!

Makes you a local patch ornitholigist!

 

[Lucky Birder]

If we're talking semantics, then I have a question. Why do we allow "amateur astronomers" but not "amateur ornithologists"? Is there a significant difference between the suffixes "-onomy" and "-ology"? If the word "astronomy" equates to the study of the universe as the word "ornithology" equates to the study of birds, then one might think that there could be such a thing as a non-professionial ornithologist.

-ology means study of, while -onomy means knowledge or measurement of. Etymology I'm afraid rather than semantics.

 

[Blackstart]

-ology means study of, while -onomy means knowledge or measurement of. Etymology I'm afraid rather than semantics.

So, if you record the numbers of migrating and breeding birds in a particular area, does that make you an "ornithonomist"?

-Adam