Black eared Wheater in Devon (1 Viewer)

[Edward woodwood]

the warm tones to the upper breast are perhaps moe of a BEW feature;

althugh the above is looking good for BEW, I can't see a pale crescent above the apricot upper breast and below the throat as in eastern BEW - maybe in the field? I find it almost impossible to judge from the pics. And does anyone have a view on the extent of the super? I remember this was thought to be important in the past?

This inspired me to look up in the Shirihai McMillan guide... 'individuals with greyish-brown uppers, white throat, warm-tinged but rather indistinct breastband may be unidentifiable... oh well.

 

[CAU]

The underparts might be a useful clue: in EB-e the breast often has a clean apricot-orange wash, with little or no dark smudging on the breast side; on Pied, any orange colour (almost burnt orange) is often markedly darker on the breast sides when present - sometimes the breast is a cold grey. The whiter throat of EB-e often contrasts markedly with the orange breast.

I'm very bad in describing colour tones, especially on a foreign language, but if I was to choose between the colour tones, I would call the colour of the breast on the Devon bird more orange than apricot or apricot orange. Of course the colour of the fruit varies greatly, but this is the colour apricot per definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apricot_(color))

This is a BEW with an apricot coloured breast (at least according to my opinion of the colour):
http://www.aerc.eu/Oenanthe hispani...ica melanoleuca 05-09-2003 Romania PL_JPG.htm

This is a BEW with an orange breast with an apricot tone (again, at least according to my opinion of the colour):
http://www.communigate.co.uk/hants/itchenbirds/phpvk3zdg

I think that the Devon bird lacks a clear apricot tone of the breast (at least based on the pictures here), typical of some (but not all BEWs), and that the colour fits quite well the colour of many of the PWs already linked in this thread. Moreover, I don't think that the breast band is completely clean, it has clear dark smudges at the carpal bends, like many of the linked Pied Wheatears (and also like many BEWs).

I'm not at all claiming that I would think that the colour of breast band would resemble more PW, I'm just saying that I don't think that the opposite can be said either.

 

[JANJ]

Here's a 1st W male Pied from Oman last week for comparison.

I've no experience of EBE in autumn and it may be a bit simplistic but this doesn't look as cold above or below as any Pied I've ever seen so I'd go along with Brian, Jan et al.

G

Also note the extention of the dark throat patch on the upper breast in Pied - reaching further down than on melanoleuca.

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=58794&highlight=eastern+black-eared+pied

not so good photos of what we thought would be an adult male melanoleuca.

just noticed the long primary projection on this from rashed
http://www.up07.com/up5/uploads/0e734a0b6e.jpg

 

[bitterntwisted]

I would call the colour of the breast on the Devon bird more orange than apricot or apricot orange.

Perhaps one of Jane's photomontages will help?

 

[Hotspur]

lmao - i have been reading round this for the last couple of days and i can honestly say i couldnt say 100%. My feeling is still pied but this is 54%-46% precisely exactly.

 

[Edward woodwood]

For those without access to UK400 forum, Lee Evans has posted giving some info on why, after a lot of field study of the bird, he considers it to be a Pied, after initially favouring EB-eW. He states it to be very similar to several other birds already accepted as Pied (including Waxham, Norfolk, October 2003 bird), necessitating a review of all past records if the bird above is considered to be an EB-eW...

a few past records have infact been attributed to neither race and are presumably still just 'on file'...

 

[JANJ]

Hi Lou.

The one we thought was an adult male melanoleuca - is an adult male melanoleuca.
Clean looking with a clear cut lower border to the blackish throat not reaching down on upper breats as in Pied (some Pied extensivly pale fringed at the lower border - which could makes the throat patch look rather similar to melanoleuca BEW) almost all dark lesser coverts, extensivily pale fringed in male Pied. Also note the upperparts colour!

JanJ

 

[Frenchy]

For those without access to UK400 forum, Lee Evans has posted giving some info on why, after a lot of field study of the bird, he considers it to be a Pied, after initially favouring EB-eW. He states it to be very similar to several other birds already accepted as Pied (including Waxham, Norfolk, October 2003 bird), necessitating a review of all past records if the bird above is considered to be an EB-eW...

a few past records have infact been attributed to neither race and are presumably still just 'on file'...

Perhaps this is a good example of the problems associated with identifying vagrants that we do not fully understand. The only comparisons that should be made are against birds of known provenance, such as skins and birds photographed in the natural range.

 

[Rare Bird Alert]

The best references to consult are Dutch Birding Vol. 16; no.5 (ID of Pied and eastern Black-eared Wheatear) and DB Vol. 25; no. 2 (Separation of eastern and western Black-eareds - though generally lacks photos of autumn birds).

For those of you who subscribe to RBA online both these articles are now available to download on our website.
For those of you who don't and would still like to read them you can always sign up for a 7 day free trial to get access to them!
Cheers
Rare Bird Alert

 

[Greysands boy]

What a fascinating thread,
Especially seeing as it is my local patch. I havnt seen it yet does anyone know if its still around I have been looking before work every day (Camera in hands) so far to no avail.
If i Did spot it (I should be so lucky) being that it is looking increasingly likely that we will not have a definitive decision on what the bird actually is can I list it as both or neither or half a tick each. they are both lifers (How frustrating im getting stressed and i havnt even seen it yet).

Cheers Darryl

 

[Lawts]

What a fascinating thread,
Especially seeing as it is my local patch. I havnt seen it yet does anyone know if its still around I have been looking before work every day (Camera in hands) so far to no avail.
If i Did spot it (I should be so lucky) being that it is looking increasingly likely that we will not have a definitive decision on what the bird actually is can I list it as both or neither or half a tick each. they are both lifers (How frustrating im getting stressed and i havnt even seen it yet).

Cheers Darryl

Darryl, it wasn't seen all day yesterday. Looks to have gone.

 

[Roy C]

What a fascinating thread,
Especially seeing as it is my local patch. I havnt seen it yet does anyone know if its still around I have been looking before work every day (Camera in hands) so far to no avail.
If i Did spot it (I should be so lucky) being that it is looking increasingly likely that we will not have a definitive decision on what the bird actually is can I list it as both or neither or half a tick each. they are both lifers (How frustrating im getting stressed and i havnt even seen it yet).

Cheers Darryl

No sign of it this morning Darryl.

 

[Julian H]

I think the bird could well fit an EBE. I base this on the rather warm brown-buff tone to the head and underparts, the paler throat area and a lack of obvious dark scaling on the central mantle and the brightness of the upperbreast. However, I'm not sure how accurate the colors are in the shots, especially since buff vs grey seems to be a good pointer towards species. it also looks rather 'dainty' and small-billed in some shots, something I think fits (possibly wrongly) with me better for EBE.
Primary projection visible in the shots is probably ambiguous for either species and the exact extent of the throat is difficult to ascertain and thus equally not helpful.

Since I've no expereience with winter EBE, I'd be inclined to sit on the fence for a while and learn on this one, especially since the plumage tone doesn't make me feel too comfortable with it being a Pied. I'd want a more cold, scaly-mantled, darker-lored bird to feel confident it was a Pied.

Also, in Andrew's shot, can anyone make out a longer first primary extending beyond the primary coverts. My imagination seems to think there may be a hint, but I can't be sure. Again that would favor EBE if it can be judged in the field.

It's a great debate and one we'll be wiser from..


JH

 

[KM1]

I have been wondering (and worrying a little), is it really as difficult to distinguish autumn male Pied and Eastern Black-eared Wheatears as the discussion in this thread suggests? With so much focus on extremely subtle nuances of colour and the relative prominence of pale fringing on the upperparts - aspects that, perplexingly, seem to change from one picture to the next - it seems to me that one very important clue has been overlooked. One of the photos featured in RoyC's posting #11 (reproduced below for convenience) indicates a definite dark neck-side (albeit partly obscured by pale fringes) which, in the context of Pied/Eastern Black-eared identification, I have always considered an unequivocal pointer to Pied (since male Eastern Black-eared never has a black neck-side) In autumn males, pale tips to these feathers may effectively conceal the diagnostic black neck-side (especially when the head is sunk into the shoulders) but when it is as visible as it is here, I think it is pretty conclusive.

As photos of autumn Eastern Black-eareds seem to be in short supply I am attaching a couple, taken on the island of Lesvos in late July/early August, where Eastern Black-eared is a common breeding species.

Regards,

Killian Mullarney

 

[Jane Turner]

What do the hybrids look like? Its been suggested that the white throat on some Pied males is probably a result of introgression of genes from O. hispanica into O. pleschanka.

The white throats are relatively common (up to 11%) in areas of pure O. pleschanka near hybridization zones, rare (c. 1%) further east.

 

[lou salomon]

no idea how to pick them out in autumn but these are 3 examples of spring males hybrids (2 x romania and 1 x iran, the bmp).

the one from iran resembles a male that i first had down as melanoleuca before i noticed that it had a thin black connection between the throat patch/neck side and the wings.

pleschankas in romanian dobrogea (hybridisation zone) seem to have less black on throat/upper breast than those further east.

 

[Andrew]

Three more pics from Dave Stone can be seen on RBA here....

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/RareGallery_ShowSpecies.asp?GalleryID=2583

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/RareGallery_ShowSpecies.asp?GalleryID=2581

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/RareGallery_ShowSpecies.asp?GalleryID=2580

 

[Jane Turner]

no idea how to pick them out in autumn but these are 3 examples of spring males hybrids (2 x romania and 1 x iran, the bmp).

the one from iran resembles a male that i first had down as melanoleuca before i noticed that it had a thin black connection between the throat patch/neck side and the wings.

pleschankas in romanian dobrogea (hybridisation zone) seem to have less black on throat/upper breast than those further east.

Cheers Lou - indeed a dazzling array of variation.

A putative hybrid in Romania

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8221&d=1083932332

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8285&d=1084089085

 

[rob stoff]

no idea how to pick them out in autumn but these are 3 examples of spring males hybrids (2 x romania and 1 x iran, the bmp).

the one from iran resembles a male that i first had down as melanoleuca before i noticed that it had a thin black connection between the throat patch/neck side and the wings.

pleschankas in romanian dobrogea (hybridisation zone) seem to have less black on throat/upper breast than those further east.

ooh err, great pics. I'm a touch curious to know how Finsch's Wheatear can be excluded, at least for the first two pics from Romania, is it just the tail pattern?

Rob