Booted/Sykes's/Olivaceous warbler? - ID request - Bulgaria (1 Viewer)

[Teodor Trifonov]

Hi everyone,

bird is from the Bulgarian Black sea coast, 11.09.2023. In the field I put it down as strange Olivaceous, but even then it made a long-tailed/long-billed impression, color was light and even, and it was moving less nervously than normal Olivaceous warblers. Back home I noticed a dark smudge on the lower mandible, which I do not believe is an artifact/dirt, as it appears in all photos, from both sides, even in overexposed shots. I honestly can't judge the primary projection and have no experience whatsoever with Sykes's and Booted. I've put the cropped (otherwise unedited) photos here, the originals + raws are on the following link - Iduna – Google Drive. Sorry in advance for the crappy shots, I was not prepared.
Any ideas which species it is, if it can even be ID'd?

Thanks!
Teo

 

[kuzeycem]

It's not Booted for sure. As for the other 2, they can be very hard and there are some apparent pro-Sykes's features; the sandy brown upperparts, long tail, and seemingly short primary projection. I'm not seeing anything conclusive re. bil colouration. The wing appears plain in some photos but there is a hint of wing panel in some other (but that would be the effect of light). Certainly an interesting bird but not sure if you can ever get a conclusive ID.

 

[KenM]

I’m wondering about Paddyfield Warbler?

Having subsequently gone on the web and observed images of PW with the longish sandy tail, short pp, white underparts, also dark edging to the upper edge of the white supercillium, I’m finding it difficult not to reconcile it with that species.

Cheers

 

[Teodor Trifonov]

It's not Booted for sure. As for the other 2, they can be very hard and there are some apparent pro-Sykes's features; the sandy brown upperparts, long tail, and seemingly short primary projection. I'm not seeing anything conclusive re. bil colouration. The wing appears plain in some photos but there is a hint of wing panel in some other (but that would be the effect of light). Certainly an interesting bird but not sure if you can ever get a conclusive ID.

Yeah, I know, I'm kicking myself I didn't chase the bird a bit more to get better photos But an interesting one for sure, even if it turns out without ID.

 

[Teodor Trifonov]

I’m wondering about Paddyfield Warbler?

Having subsequently gone on the web and observed images of PW with the longish sandy tail, short pp, white underparts, also dark edging to the upper edge of the white supercillium, I’m finding it difficult not to reconcile it with that species.

Cheers

Honestly, gut feeling. I've seen PW both in the field and in the hand. But as you say, a considerable overlap in the general characters exists (although from what I understand it's rather more similar to Booted than to the other Iduna's). The only rather more serious feature would be t1 feathers being shorter than t2, which is pro-Iduna and not seen in Acrocephalus species (seen on DSC_2417), but this could have other explanations as well.

Cheers

 

[James Lowther]

Paddyfield is rufous with a relatively pale iris, I don’t think it fits.
Cheers
James

 

[KenM]

Honestly, gut feeling. I've seen PW both in the field and in the hand. But as you say, a considerable overlap in the general characters exists (although from what I understand it's rather more similar to Booted than to the other Iduna's). The only rather more serious feature would be t1 feathers being shorter than t2, which is pro-Iduna and not seen in Acrocephalus species (seen on DSC_2417), but this could have other explanations as well.

Cheers

I’ve seen PW in the field just the once, the surprise for me was the contrasting warmth of the tail and the length, including the other features mentioned, which appear to be mirrored by your subject bird, yes tertial biometrics might be helpful.

Cheers

 

[KenM]

Paddyfield is rufous with a relatively pale iris, I don’t think it fits.
Cheers
James

There is not enough resolution in the images provided to determine iris colour, and the “real”tonal value to the unstreaked upperparts will always be notoriously variable with the ambient lighting.
I’ve found this time and again, when looking at Phylloscs and Acros in the field as they move through foliage with reflected light sources.

Cheers

 

[James Lowther]

There is not enough resolution in the images provided to determine iris colour, and the “real”tonal value to the unstreaked upperparts will always be notoriously variable with the ambient lighting.
I’ve found this time and again, when looking at Phylloscs and Acros in the field as they move through foliage with reflected light sources.

Cheers

Well, I disagree. Photos clearly show a milky tea coloured bird with a dark iris. In addition the bill is pro Iduna and not good for paddyfield.
James

 

[Brian J Small]

Definitely an Iduna and I would, if pushed, rule out Booted and possibly suggest it is Sykes's based on v spiky bill, long tail and plumage hues inc white underparts.

Brian

 

[KenM]

Well, I disagree. Photos clearly show a milky tea coloured bird with a dark iris. In addition the bill is pro Iduna and not good for paddyfield.
James

Looking at “cleaned up” image 3…it appears to show a pale iris which presumably Booted might show?
That to one side, I’d be surprised if Booted/Syke’s would show such a “long” tail and such a “contrasting” warm rump, how overlap-ingly variable these taxons would appear given the ambient lighting?
Three PW’s from the web.😮

Having now looked at Syke’s, I agree that it could well be a contender, particularly since the “clean up”…..pity it wasn’t cleaned up sooner.😩