Brief comparison between Swarovski AX Visio 10x32 vs EL 10x32 Swarovision (1 Viewer)

[jackjack]

distributor of Swarovski in South Korea lend me the one and only AX Visio 10x32 in korea for review.

as I have 10x32 of EL Swarovision, I have a chance to compare it with AX Visio


It's a very big, heavy, thick bino for 32mm...



Digiscoped photoes for reference.

1. AX Visio



EL 10x32


visio / el


2. AX Visio


EL 10x32


visio / el


AX visio



EL 10x32


visio / el


pincusion distortion seems more in AX visio

 visio

el 10x32



there are more CA in AX Visio. especially at the edges

visio / el


visio / el


color

AX visio

slight greenish hue. smilar to zeiss victory ht 10x42 and canon 10x30 is. but better fidelity then both. but not as EL, NL

EL 10x32 (Flat color pallet. very high color fidelity. little bit less yellow, red but more blue than NL 10x32

1. Brightness

Significant win for EL.
maybe more exaggerated difference due to color pallet (EL have more yellow, red) but Brightness also clearly differ at low light.

2. FOV

64 / 69 win for EL

3. Central sharpness

slightly better in EL.
gap is smaller then I thought. AX visio still have significantly better sharpness then Swaro companion and Zeiss conquest.

4. Edge sharpness

clear win for EL.

AX visio has blurring of about 94 ~ 96%. significantly lower than almost perfect EL

5. CA control

better in EL

AX visio has significant more CA both in center and edge then EL 10x32.
so the CA control is about

visio 10x32 << el 10x32 < nl 10x32

6. Pincusion distortion control

clear win for EL.
but AX visio's distortion gave better panning feel and 3D rendering.

7. Stray light control

almost same but little better in EL at many occasions.

EL has more stronger glares at bottom of the FOV when Visio's glaring is smooth and milkier but come more higer to the center in many occasions.

both much lower then 32mm conquest, leica UVHD, 33mm genesis.
for the size as long as 42mm. AX visio's stray light control is even much worse then 42mm EL& NL.
so I want to say It's stray light performance is far below it's size.

8. Ghosting

Better in AX visio

9. 3D rendering

Significantly better in AX visio

due to it's distortion. ax visio has more 3d rendering then too - flat EL. lvery similar 3D rendering with NL 10x32.

10. Focusing

more even in Visio but much faster and easier in EL at real uses.

Visio has shallower focus dept then EL & NL with simler focus rotation amount with EL.
so I have to give my concern more to Visio when I have to focus it.

focus itself is heavy and slower then expected.
so It is much harder then EL to follow small birds close to me.

11. Ease, Comfort of the view.

Ease of view is significantly better in EL. Ax visio have more trouble adjusting right inter pupliary distance and eye point.
also. it have more blackout's than el both with and without glasses.

Eye relief is much longer then stated so bit more blackouts are seen using glasses.

rolling ball is much less in AX visio, but it have more eye strain then EL and NL.
maybe due to more blue light transmission that made visio color greener. + more 3D rendering then EL.

12. Close focus

visio about 2.5 ~ 2.6

el about 1.7


AX visio is overall inferior optically then EL. it is darker, less color fidelity, not - as - Swarovision sharp edges, more CA.

but I think swarovski do well not to damage the optics THAT much while using electronic systems inside.
not the best swaro level, bet still have better optics then I thought.

 

[jackjack]

Plus. AX Visio has slightly different color pallet in it's left and right tubes

AX visio [Left tube]



AX visio [Right tube]



left / right


Left tube have more yellow coloring then right tube.

Left tube is more yellow- green and Right is more greenish.

can be seen in digiscoped results but more easier to be seen in real eyes.

maybe because Right tubes have electronic devices inside.
(I think the electronic device inside the right tube damaged the transmission a bit so, the color can differ between both tubes. or for the another reason maybe...)

similar but much huge difference occured in Nikon Laserforce 10x42.

left tube of Laserforce 10x42


right tubes of Laser force 10x42 (device inside)

tremendous difference between two tubes that give many users big eyestrain...

and also, FOV circle is significantly cut out (see the right edge)

swarovski managed much better then this... they have to because Visio is MUCH more expensive....

I wondor electronic device itself can damage color pallet or the transmission disadvantages that the individual tube which have electronic device in it have make the difference......

If I have time, I will post how well the function in AX visio works.

is there are any ways of posting video in the thread of this forum?
I have filmed some video of AX visio function working for review in Korean forum. I'm happy to share in this forum if I can.

 

[Canip]

so I want to say It's stray light performance is far below it's size.

Ax visio have more trouble adjusting right inter pupliary distance and eye point.

Eye relief is much longer then stated

due to it's distortion. ax visio has more 3d rendering

This could be an interesting comparison berween EL and Visio, but:
What the heck are you talking about?

 

[jackjack]

This could be an interesting comparison berween EL and Visio, but:
What the heck are you talking about?

I don't know people can rethread the single paragraph.
thank you for point out.

1. as you know, stray light performance tends to be better if the bino gets bigger (such as 32mm -> 42mm) and fov gets smaller. that's why NL 10x32 is weaker at stray light then NL 10x42 (size) and NL 10X42 is weaker at stray light then EL 10x42 (FOV)
VISIO is very big and have commen FOV between 32mm.
but it's stray light is still not as good ans zeiss, leica, nikon flagship 32's.
and also compared with 42mm Swaro that have more similar size, it is too weak at flaring.
+also I fill pity that AX visio's lens are very deep inside the tube, which many bino use to control stray light (sucha s edg32, victory ht, sightron sv)
but still can't manage to control stray light well.

 

[tenex]

Congratulations on getting hold of an AX, jackjack. Some good comparisons there, but I'm not following in a few places myself...

but AX visio's distortion gave better panning feel and 3D rendering

"3D rendering" is not a very well defined term, so members here (myself included) often don't understand exactly what is meant.

both much lower then 32mm conquest, leica UVHD, 33mm genesis

This sounds like you're suggesting these models have worse stray light control than EL or AX? (not the general opinion, esp. of UVHD)

so I want to say It's stray light performance is far below it's size

But AX is still only a 32mm binocular, if aperture is the relevant measure.

Ax visio have more trouble adjusting right inter pupliary distance and eye point.

I don't understand this either.

Eye relief is much longer then stated so bit more blackouts are seen using glasses.

How did you measure eye relief? This sounds like a theory or assumption to explain blackouts? (which haven't yet been reported by other users)

it have more eye strain then EL and NL

Not sure exactly what you mean by "eye strain"... perhaps just the opposite of "ease of view"?

I think videos can't actually be uploaded to the forum due to size, but can be linked from many external sites. Click the Media button to the right of the smiley face for options.

 

[jackjack]

This could be an interesting comparison berween EL and Visio, but:
What the heck are you talking about?

2. I guess VISIO have less favorable eyebox than EL and NL.
still good but more clumsy then EL, NL.
Swarovski have very good ease of view (in their ADs, due to multi eyepoints.)
but I feel AX visio's eyepoint is not like Swaro says about.



mmaybeit's because of it's eye relief. AX visio eye cup's are similer to NL (7 stops much more then 4 of EL)
so It may have the eyepeice mechanism of NL.
and also similar eye relief (17.8 / 18)
but Visio's FOV is lot smaller then NL (64 / 75)

as you know also,

too long eye relief for It's FOV can lead black out even you wear glasses (so some bino are uses with 1click stop + even with glasses )
and if the eyecup isn't as long to match it's eyerelif, black outs can also me more prominent for non glass wearers.

For example, Zeiss conquest 8x42, meopta meopro air 8x42, kowa yf2 6x30, vortex vantam 6.5x32 are especially suffering for that issue.

(not that big fov + long ER + Not enough long eyecups.)

AX visio is much less than the produsts I said over but have similar symptoms and specs that back up than theories.

 

[jackjack]

This could be an interesting comparison berween EL and Visio, but:
What the heck are you talking about?

the last. 3D rendering.

compared to EL, AX visio have much.
EL has very flat pincusion distortion that even cause rolling ball effect. right?

it's lack of pincusion distortion also leads to less 3D rendering.

those are digiscoped result of

el 10x32 (little pincusion)
ax visio 10x32 (little more then EL)
victoru ht 10x42 (Lot more then both.)



center size is similar since they are both 10 powers.

but the edges, the size differ more significantly


that's because pincusion distortion inflated the edges.
same like this photo

so like this photo, barrel Distortion, which is the opposit ways of pincusion make center image big in close sightings but make surrounding smaller then your own eyes.
that make the real view more compressed then your real eyes. like you see from convex mirrors at parking lot

in pincusion, it's opposit. in close distance, it's mags seems smaller then barrel. but surrounding is much bigger.
3D rendering comes from high perspective. in human eyes, we can check perspective by sizes. if same real size closer objects are bigger and far is smaller.
barral distortion reduce the apparent size difference that our eyes use to feel perspective.(not that close / close / closer sizes can look much similar then naked eyes.)
while pincusion exaggerate it.

that's why amount of pincusion distortion leads to higer perspective (which mean better rendering of spaces between multiple objectives at diffrent distance)

 

[jackjack]

Congratulations on getting hold of an AX, jackjack. Some good comparisons there, but I'm not following in a few places myself...

"3D rendering" is not a very well defined term, so members here (myself included) often don't understand exactly what is meant.

This sounds like you're suggesting these models have worse stray light control than EL or AX? (not the general opinion, esp. of UVHD)

But AX is still only a 32mm binocular, if aperture is the relevant measure.

I don't understand this either.

How did you measure eye relief? This sounds like a theory or assumption to explain blackouts? (which haven't yet been reported by other users)

Not sure exactly what you mean by "eye strain"... perhaps just the opposite of "ease of view"?

I think videos can't actually be uploaded to the forum due to size, but can be linked from many external sites. Click the Media button to the right of the smiley face for options.

my english is not good and it is even harder to write it using my small smartphone. so my real meaning may not be successfully conveyed then I use Korean language to Korean people... sorry for that...

 

[jackjack]

Congratulations on getting hold of an AX, jackjack. Some good comparisons there, but I'm not following in a few places myself...

"3D rendering" is not a very well defined term, so members here (myself included) often don't understand exactly what is meant.

This sounds like you're suggesting these models have worse stray light control than EL or AX? (not the general opinion, esp. of UVHD)

But AX is still only a 32mm binocular, if aperture is the relevant measure.

I don't understand this either.

How did you measure eye relief? This sounds like a theory or assumption to explain blackouts? (which haven't yet been reported by other users)

Not sure exactly what you mean by "eye strain"... perhaps just the opposite of "ease of view"?

I think videos can't actually be uploaded to the forum due to size, but can be linked from many external sites. Click the Media button to the right of the smiley face for options.

visio's stray light is much WORSE then 32mm conquest and UV, genesis (whicis 33mm for real...)
it doesn't improve then EL 10x32 which many of you knows to weak at stray light.

I said about eye relif at my respond to canip.

eyestrain is hard to say but mainly, high blue light transmission and high 3d rendering in more straing to our eyes (think of the sunglasses that have yellow sighting it's yellow because it cuts the blue spectrum of light that is more sensitive to our eyes)

(for 3D rentering, think of 3D motion sickness that many people experienced while watching 3D movies and using 3D devices.
to bino users, use porro bino to look close and leveled places. like going out to the park to see the view. it will be more stressful than using roof prisms.)


AX VISIO's greenish color cames from higher blue - green light spectrum transmission then other swarovski.
and higher redering of 3D mainly cames from distortion that I said at former responds.

 

[jackjack]

Congratulations on getting hold of an AX, jackjack. Some good comparisons there, but I'm not following in a few places myself...

"3D rendering" is not a very well defined term, so members here (myself included) often don't understand exactly what is meant.

This sounds like you're suggesting these models have worse stray light control than EL or AX? (not the general opinion, esp. of UVHD)

But AX is still only a 32mm binocular, if aperture is the relevant measure.

I don't understand this either.

How did you measure eye relief? This sounds like a theory or assumption to explain blackouts? (which haven't yet been reported by other users)

Not sure exactly what you mean by "eye strain"... perhaps just the opposite of "ease of view"?

I think videos can't actually be uploaded to the forum due to size, but can be linked from many external sites. Click the Media button to the right of the smiley face for options.

eye strain is not oppotit of ease of view.
ease of veiw is mainly how the eyepoint that can cleary see all FOV are easily found.
so Exitpupil size is one of the key circumstances.

but the comfort of the view is how the view itself is comfortable and relaxing for our eyes.

for example. steiner nighthunter 8x56 has much better ease of vier then 8x42 nikon hgl because of larger exit pupil that have more room for our puplil to move around.
+ the winged eyecups that nighthunter have.

but hgl's view is more relaxing then nighthunter.
not exaggerated perspective like porro prisms, less but not least brightness, reduced transmission of blue light that make the view more yellowish then flat transmission with very little bit of green coloring of nighthunter.

so the ease of view is better in nighthunter 8x56, but comfort of the view is better in hgl 8x42

 

[jackjack]

Congratulations on getting hold of an AX, jackjack. Some good comparisons there, but I'm not following in a few places myself...

"3D rendering" is not a very well defined term, so members here (myself included) often don't understand exactly what is meant.

This sounds like you're suggesting these models have worse stray light control than EL or AX? (not the general opinion, esp. of UVHD)

But AX is still only a 32mm binocular, if aperture is the relevant measure.

I don't understand this either.

How did you measure eye relief? This sounds like a theory or assumption to explain blackouts? (which haven't yet been reported by other users)

Not sure exactly what you mean by "eye strain"... perhaps just the opposite of "ease of view"?

I think videos can't actually be uploaded to the forum due to size, but can be linked from many external sites. Click the Media button to the right of the smiley face for options.

and for my thought. AX visio's eye strain can influenced by diffrent colors of two tubes.
as for the Nikon Laserforce that have very different color in both tubes, the color of the view depends on which color the user's eye are sensitive at.

for example, I see the view very bluish green similar to it's right tube digiscoping. but friend of mine sees little bluids green but mainly yellowish green. like the left tubes.

that's because our eyes mix two colors of the tube to make another color that we think as the original color of the bino.

if color of the two tubes are different. eye have to work harder to mix it.
maybe similar to collimation issue.
our eyes get more stressd when use badly collimated bino. because our eyes have to put more effort adjusting the views that proper collinated ones.

 

[Canip]

not that big fov + long ER + Not enough long eyecups

If I were to understand you correctly, I would probably disagree with most of what you say, but I am not sure I follow your logic - probably just me
Have you ever used the Visio to observe a bird? Or somtehing else in nature?

 

[jackjack]

If I were to understand you correctly, I would probably disagree with most of what you say, but I am not sure I follow your logic - probably just me
Have you ever used the Visio to observe a bird? Or somthing else in nature?

View attachment 1562463

I found your review in internet after I finished prototype of my reviews.
have seen many of your reviews, admired your work a lot. but still can't agree with all of the results.
maybe it's personal diffrence or sample variation but I'll keep my opinions because like you, I'm not 100% but still very confident of writing what I exactly see in my reviews.
guess thats why Swarovskioptic distridutor in Korea ask me for a review when AX visio was even not sold to Korean users.
which was a first individual rent of that company sice in was founed more then 20 years ago.

yes I used it on 4 diffrent birding situation where I saw about 70 speices of birds accompanied by well known birder who whi have seen 300+ species in Korea. (170 for me)
I used ax video to various size and distace of birds.
for each trip, I put on AX VISIO and el 10x32 both on my neck in order to compare optics every time I don't use the function of AX visio.

digiscoped result of AX visio identitfing great egret

 

[William Lewis]

Nice to read your assessments of the optical properties of the ax visio jackjack - good work.

 

[tenex]

Jackjack, your English is good and most of the time I understand it quite well.

Some people (including me) just don't get a different impression of space ("3D") with typical variations in pincushion distortion; I wonder why. (I do notice a difference at modest distances viewing with more widely separated objectives, but that's a different issue.)

This "eye strain" comment involves similar subjectivity. I know what a poorly collimated bin feels like, but slight variations in color rendition don't produce what I would call "eye strain", and each may perform better under different conditions. Also the two eyes generally differ themselves to begin with, and the brain is accustomed to blending the result.

Subtle optical comparisons often come into play when choosing a bin, but there's only one AX, so if one wants its features there's no choice.

Once some more people start using AX, it will be interesting to see what they think of its eyebox and whether more complaints of blackouts arise, especially with eyeglasses. I don't recall such complaints with models like EL Range, although it's not widely used on this forum either.

 

[jackjack]

Jackjack, your English is good and most of the time I understand it quite well.

Some people (including me) just don't get a different impression of space ("3D") with typical variations in pincushion distortion; I wonder why. (I do notice a difference at modest distances viewing with more widely separated objectives, but that's a different issue.)

This "eye strain" comment involves similar subjectivity. I know what a poorly collimated bin feels like, but slight variations in color rendition don't produce what I would call "eye strain", and each may perform better under different conditions. Also the two eyes generally differ themselves to begin with, and the brain is accustomed to blending the result.

Subtle optical comparisons often come into play when choosing a bin, but there's only one AX, so if one wants its features there's no choice.

Once some more people start using AX, it will be interesting to see what they think of its eyebox and whether more complaints of blackouts arise, especially with eyeglasses. I don't recall such complaints with models like EL Range, although it's not widely used on this forum

if the magnification is same, width between two objective lenses is the main reason of 3D rendering as you see from porro prisms.
the wider the lenses are, the diffrence gap of the view from each lenses are bigger, that made the hugh 3D rendering and eyestrain.
so if same EL, 10x50 is more ideal for 3D rendering then 10x32. because of the width of the lenses.

if the lens width is also same, then comes to pincushion distortion.
many people can't find the difference unless the gap is very big. such as barrel Distortion shuntu panorama vs high pincushion victory HT.
and can't be seen in videos and photoes because 3D rendering is occured by our brain using two lenses.

for instance, zeiss sf 10x42 has more 3D rendering then Swaro EL 10x42. because of more wide set lenses and pincushion, but compared to victory HT 10x42, HT has more lens width because of ABBE prisms and more pincushion distortion.

and if user wear glasses, 3d rendering feels much lower then using with non glasses. I think because the view have to get pass eye glasses lenses and get adjusted a bit.

I can use bino both with my glasses on and off.do a review in both sights to.
luckily I have zero astigmatism yet and my naked eye sight is enough to do every day life.
just use glasses to see more detail such as small letters and birds...
so I can tell a diffrence of 3D rendering and change of color pallet

(eye glass itself have coating to reduce blue light transmission, so most of the eyeglass lenses are bit yellowish like victory sf. so If you use bino with eyeglass, the view will be significantly yellower then non glass views.)



and the color diffrence of two lenses of the visio is just a theory as I said above. it's not as severe as Nikon Laserforce that color diffrence DOES bother the comfort

mainly, it's blue light transmission might be the main reason of eyestrain.
as I said, left tube has more yellow but still significantly greener then EL, NL in my eyes.
smilar color pallet I think is Canon 10x30 is ii

 

[Canip]

for instance, zeiss sf 10x42 has more 3D rendering then Swaro EL 10x42. because of more wide set lenses

You don't have to agree with me, but I for sure don't agree with you.
If you set the SF and the EL SV to the same IPD, their front lenses are at the same distance from each other (see pic). If anything, those of the EL SV are a very tiny amount more apart than those of the SF (the SF has slightly thicker armour).
And even if there were a difference, it would be so small that there could not be a difference in perceived 3D effect from it.

 

[jackjack]

You don't have to agree with me, but I for sure don't agree with you.
If you set the SF and the EL SV to the same IPD, their front lenses are at the same distance from each other (see pic). If anything, those of the EL SV are a very tiny amount more apart than those of the SF (the SF has slightly thicker armour).
And even if there were a difference, it would be so small that there could not be a difference in perceived 3D effect from it.

the widt between lenses is width between THe Center of the objective lenses. not the rim of the tubes.

if that width is also same, I adimit I was wrong about width between 10x42 EL and 10x42 sf

if the distance between two bino are same. the more distortion ocuured in SF 10x42 may have affected the 3d rendering.

comparison between el 10x32 and sf 10x42

why I use 10x32 el's photo is that EL 10x32 has much similer fov to sf 10x42 (68.5 / 68)
in digiscoping, the wider the apparent fov is, the more amount of distortion (pincusion and barrel) is likely to get exaggerated by the camera lenses.
10x32 el amd 10x42 SF has almost same fov, so exaggeration also will be similer. so you can see the difference more cleary.

plus, 10x42 el does seem to have less distortion then 10x32 el.

 

[Canip]

if that width is also same, I adimit I was wrong about width between 10x42 EL and 10x42 sf

if the distance between two bino are same.

What do you mean by „if the distance is the same“?
Your statement „zeiss sf 10x42 has more 3D rendering then Swaro EL 10x42 because of more wide set lenses“ sounded as if it was something you had checked. What else in your posts have you mentioned but not checked?

 

[jackjack]

What do you mean by „if the distance is the same“?
Your statement „zeiss sf 10x42 has more 3D rendering then Swaro EL 10x42 because of more wide set lenses“ sounded as if it was something you had checked. What else in your posts have you mentioned but not checked?

I have checked. but after you said about it, I wonder If I had mistaken the distance between the center of the two objective lenses.