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Can you do it all with one pair of binos? (1 Viewer)

Christopher,

Your comments all make sense.

I noticed some flare, but I've also noticed it in much more expensive bins. I thought it was quite acceptable for the price. It was less of a problem than the other issues I've had with some mid-priced roofs.

The focus slop didn't show up in the pair I tried. Mine wasn't silky smooth, but not bad at all.

If they do drive you crazy, definitely return them. But, being "picky" can be expensive.

BTW CameralandNY is still showing a Minox asph BD8x32BR DEMO for a good price.


APS
 
APSmith said:
Christopher,

Your comments all make sense.

I noticed some flare, but I've also noticed it in much more expensive bins. I thought it was quite acceptable for the price. It was less of a problem than the other issues I've had with some mid-priced roofs.

The focus slop didn't show up in the pair I tried. Mine wasn't silky smooth, but not bad at all.

If they do drive you crazy, definitely return them. But, being "picky" can be expensive.

BTW CameralandNY is still showing a Minox asph BD8x32BR DEMO for a good price.


APS


Thanks for those thoughts. Really the most irritating issue is the focus slop. Everything else seems reasonable, especially for the price. I'm going to give it a few days to see how they work "real world", looking at birds, and see if trying to follow them is tough to do with the focus issue. I spoke with Eagle optics (the vendor whom I purchased them from), and they checked a few other of their samples of the 8x30 Yosemite. The customer service rep I spoke with said that they all suffered from focus slop with that design to one extent or another. They were extremely helpful, and more than willing to accept a return if I am not satisfied. Kudos to EO's customer service.

Oh, and I realize that being picky can be expensive. I'm certainly in the position of trying to figure out at what point does the cost and performance curves cross for my need and budget.

Best,
Christopher
 
Macaoidh said:
Thanks for those thoughts. Really the most irritating issue is the focus slop. Everything else seems reasonable, especially for the price. I'm going to give it a few days to see how they work "real world", looking at birds, and see if trying to follow them is tough to do with the focus issue. I spoke with Eagle optics (the vendor whom I purchased them from), and they checked a few other of their samples of the 8x30 Yosemite. The customer service rep I spoke with said that they all suffered from focus slop with that design to one extent or another. They were extremely helpful, and more than willing to accept a return if I am not satisfied. Kudos to EO's customer service.

Oh, and I realize that being picky can be expensive. I'm certainly in the position of trying to figure out at what point does the cost and performance curves cross for my need and budget.

Best,
Christopher

Hi Christopher,

I'm again beginning to wonder if you should have gone with the Katmai.
As silky a focussing knob as my Zeiss FL, and center sharpness like my Leica Ultravid. And let's not forget that they're the perfect size and they close focus to less than 5 feet. While you have the chance to exchange and compare in real life field tests I'd recommend you might want to do so.

Just a thought,

Best of luck always ... Robert / Seattle

(PS. Neither have I observed any significant flare with the Katmais)
 
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Macaoidh said:
I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's....
The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare....
The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4"....

Hmm...these are not good qualities. I think you must have a substandard unit. I somewhat reluctantly (having promised myself not to spend any more money on cheap binos) got a Yosemite recently for my son (now that his IPD is >50 mm). He wears glasses, so I got the 6x30. The unit has ZERO focus slop and is extremely flare resistant. I'm accustomed to a bit of slop in this type of focus system, so if there had been some I wouldn't have been surprised. I'm very pleased with the performance against the light. More and more, flare is the deciding factor when I am ranking binos since it still seems to vary from model to model quite a bit, whereas centerfield resolution and color fidelity are consistently quite good in most midpriced or better binos. My only gripe with the Yosemite is that focus direction is opposite of the quasi-standard used with Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, and most, if not all Nikon binos.
--AP
 
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My 6 x 30's don't have any slop or flare either but they do have alot of flair for a $100.00 Porro! A handsome binocular, indeed!
Bob
 
Macaoidh said:
Alright. I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's by UPS (they dropped them off at 10pm!). Obviously I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get to check out our backyard birds, but here are my first impressions, good, and bad.

Good: The size is fine. It's at the top of the size range I was looking for, but very small for a porro, fits into my large hands, and is quite light and well balanced. From looking across the rooms in our house, picking out details on our wall clocks, etc., the optics look nice and sharp, perhaps slightly better than the roofs I was looking at, with just a bit of fallout in detail along the outer edges. The view is nice and bright as well, but that will be seen better tomorrow. The strap that comes with it is nice, and the binoculars themselves are very handsome (I opted for the natural color).

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image. I remember looking through many different roofs, including the Nikons, Minox, Eagle Optics, and I don't recall this being an issue with a bright window and looking at another object nearby. We'll see how they work in more "real world" settings. The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4" of movement when going from near to far and back when changing directions, where the focus wheel moves, but there's no change in focus. That combined with the focus wheel being significantly harder to turn to the counterclockwise vs clockwise, makes focusing not as pleasant as nearly every roof in the $300 price range. Mind you, these are 1/3 the price. Also, for some reason with these binos as well I seem to have trouble getting a "seamless" image, where both barrels overlap without a noticeable "line" from the opposing side. I wonder if that has anything to do with a smaller exit pupil than the others I had been looking at..?

We'll see, but these may very well be going back. Perhaps I'm being too picky for a $100 pair of binoculars, but with the way folks raved about them (and another buyer who when I asked pre-purchase if his had any focus "slop", the reply was no) I had high hopes and expectations. I have no qualms at this point with the optical clarity, but the focus wheel at is driving me nuts. My best bet is probably to use them a bit outdoors, and take them to a shop with me to compare directly against my top contenders in the roof arena, which I think right now are the EO 8x32 sxt and Minox 8x42 bl.

Best,
Christopher

Hi Christopher,

I'll out myself as the source of the "no-slop" information. After reading your description of slop I checked both my wife's Yosemites and mine again. How did you measure the 1/4" of slop?

Looking at, not through the Yosemites, while turning the focus wheel back and forth I checked to see if there is anyplace in the travel where changing focus direction does not result in immediate movement of the eyepieces in the opposite direction. I could not find anyplace. No matter how gently I moved the focus knob in each direction it results in an immediate, if subtle, movement. I did the same test looking through them (both pairs) and when I change direction I immediately see slight change in focus that becomes very apparent after 1/16" of travel.

(some details for those who haven’t seen the Yosemites) The focus knob is rubber with a series of grip ridges. The distance from a point on one of the ridges to the same point on the next is 1/8". Going from one extreme of focus to the other takes just a bit over 1/2 a rotation of the focus knob. During that rotation 11 1/2 of the ridges pass, giving a total travel of 1 7/16”.

If you have 1/4" of slop in there I think your pair must be defective. I’m sorry your experience with the Yosemites has turned out less positive than my own.

Kind regards,
Wuchak
 
Wuchak said:
Hi Christopher,

I'll out myself as the source of the "no-slop" information. After reading your description of slop I checked both my wife's Yosemites and mine again. How did you measure the 1/4" of slop?

Looking at, not through the Yosemites, while turning the focus wheel back and forth I checked to see if there is anyplace in the travel where changing focus direction does not result in immediate movement of the eyepieces in the opposite direction. I could not find anyplace. No matter how gently I moved the focus knob in each direction it results in an immediate, if subtle, movement. I did the same test looking through them (both pairs) and when I change direction I immediately see slight change in focus that becomes very apparent after 1/16" of travel.

(some details for those who haven’t seen the Yosemites) The focus knob is rubber with a series of grip ridges. The distance from a point on one of the ridges to the same point on the next is 1/8". Going from one extreme of focus to the other takes just a bit over 1/2 a rotation of the focus knob. During that rotation 11 1/2 of the ridges pass, giving a total travel of 1 7/16”.

If you have 1/4" of slop in there I think your pair must be defective. I’m sorry your experience with the Yosemites has turned out less positive than my own.

Kind regards,
Wuchak

I guess, perhaps I did not take out a pair of calipers. When moving focus from one direction to the next, and looking for movement in the eyepieces (or apparent change in focus through the binocular), it would take just over 1 ridge-to-ridge distance before there was any change in focus or movement in the eyepieces noted. I guess there may be the -slightest- movement in eyepiece before that, but nothing noted visually. If I were to focus a hairs-breadth past an object, then reverse focus knob motion, it would be a very "light" movement of the knob that amount, then you can feel the resistance increase at the same time it begins to change focus in the other direction. I guess I should be more careful when I make those distance references.

Of note, I found that our Academy stores here in town carry the 6x30s, and looking through one of those, there was much less "slop" in the motion.

The resistance difference clockwise to counterclockwise has lessened with increased usage of the new binoculars.

The nice thing about these binoculars is that even with my 41/2 year old (who I belive has an IPD of about 45, by my crude measurement), can see well through them, and can manipulate the nice large focus knob well enough to change and bring the field into focus. I was surprised that he could work them so well.

Best,
Christopher

PS I plan today to take them with me and compare them to some of the roofs I've been looking at. Should be interesting. No one in town carries the 8x30 Yosemites yet.
 
Alright. I made it to Sportsman's Warehouse today, with the Yosemites in hand. They were itching for a fight, and ready to stack themselves up against the field. To make a long story short, I walked away (VERY happily) with a set of 8x42 Monarchs. I love them. All I need to do now is put a bullet in my computer. ;)

To make a short story long, for those of you interested, here's my first impression of a few different ~$300 roofs, and how they compare to each other and the Yosemites. I spent a couple of hours and hundreds of A/B comparison looking at these, so I felt like I didn't just make a snap judgement. The guy and the binocular counter must have been VERY bored, and thought me out of my mind. |:$|

The contenders: Leupold Yosemite (using at home for about 4 days) - $120; Nikon Monarch 8x42 - $289, Nikon Monarch 8x36 - $~265, Minox 8x42 BL - green - $309, Minox BD BR 8x32 - $450. You've already heard my thoughts on the Leupolds, but you'll hear a bit more as I get through this. I also looked at the Leupold 8x42 Cascades, but quickly discounted them (if you want more info I'll be happy to give my thoughts).

1) Nikon Monarch 8x42 - Overall winner for me. They were clear and sharp, with a bit of a drop off at the edges. They were a hair sharper than the Minox BLs. The Minox BD 8x32s were a hair sharper in the right eye, but not the left (sample variance?). The colors were natural, even across the spectrum, and a bit more vivid than the others. They were very bright, slightly more than the Minox 8x42 BLs. The eye relief was exceptional, allowing me full view with glasses. The Yosemites I needed to have the cups half way down with NO glasses to have a full view (strange). The handling was equal to the Minox 8x42s, being light, well balanced, and very secure. Focusing was smooth and easy, with no play/slop in the wheel. Exceptional warranty, and with small kids and packing it around in a backpack, the attached objective covers are quite nice. They suffered no flare, reflections, or glare that I could pick up in a in-store environment. Though tied for largest in size, they are no larger than the Yosemites. If you tipped the yosemites on their side, they would be the same size as these, so no real deficit there.

2) Nikon Monarch 8x36 - For me, not quite as sharp, or easy to focus with as the 8x42s. Just a bit of brightness loss, and the focus wheel was much touchier than the 8x42s. There was less eye relief, to the point where my glasses would not provide a full field. The cost difference, and size difference did not make up for the decreased handling/image for me. They, as the Monarch 8x42s, suffered no glare or reflections with all the light sources present in the store (numerous fluorescent lights, windows, and skylights).

3) Minox 8x42 BL. ALMOST went with these. Practically the same price, size, weight, balance, eye relief, and handling as the Monarch 8x42s. Nearly a clone! However, the image was just -slightly-, and I mean slightly less sharp, and the colors were a touch more "flat". Perhaps they were truly more natural than the Monarchs, but my eyes liked the colors of the Monarch a bit better, after many, many A/B comparisons inside and outside the store. The focus was slower (more revolutions to get the same effect) than the Monarchs. Some may like this. At first I thought I did, but as I played with them more, I liked the faster focusing of the Monarchs. Excellent binocs, great price. It really could have come down to pure sample variance. But in the end, I went with the Monarchs. They "spoke" to me..?

4) Minox 8x32 BD BR. These have been brought up in many discussions lately, and I was curious to try them. They are smaller than the 8x42s, but at least as heavy, and certainly feel even heavier/stouter. The eye relief was not as good as the 8x42s (either one). The focus wheel was smooth, but stiff, and this may have been just because it was new. The focusing was slower, like the BL 8x42s. The right side was tack sharp. Sharper than the Monarchs. The left was actually not quite as sharp as the right, and a bit softer than the Monarchs. This may have been a malaligned sample, but I thought that was interesting. No glare or reflections, as with all the roofs I evaluated today. Brightness was a bit less than the 8x42 Minox, and a fair amount less than the 8x42 Monarchs (not surprising) Handling was alright, but didn't feel as balanced to me. Overall, for my needs, not worth the extra money. If I HAD to have an 8x32, I'd certainly consider them, and look at another sample to check out the clarity issue.

5) Yosemite 8x30. As I really had a chance to give them a great A/B workout against many of the most popular $300 roofs, I must give credit where credit is due. These things are sharp. They gave up nothing to any of these binoculars in overall clarity, and they are surprisingly bright for a 30mm objective. There was some CA to be found with all these binos, and I think these had the least (by a small margin) of any of the above. The field of view is wider than all of them as well, which was quite noticible when compared, especially to the 8x42s. As a compact, lightweight, sharp, waterproof, inexpensive 8x bino that has great FOV, I don't think there's anything else in this price class. They aren't without flaw, however.

The things that made me spend nearly 3x as much for a PRIMARY set of binoculars are few, but important to me. First, the focus wheel issue. I may have an aberrent example, but it was smooth and heavy, not easy to turn in both directions with one finger. There was enough play/slop that it was not as easy or pleasant to hop from one focus point to another and feel like I had good control. If I overshot, it was not "graceful" to come back spot-on focus. The eye relief, while excellent for a non-glasses wearer was strange. I had full view with all the roofs with their cups fully extended, but I had to halfway retract the cups on the Yosemites, or suffer from left and right edge blackouts. I'm sure it was a combo of eye relief and a smaller, less forgiving exit-pupil. Handling is good with these, being light and well balanced, but my large hands prefered the enveloping feel of really wrapping around a set of roofs. I felt very relaxed and in control of the Monarchs and Minoxs. This is nothing against the Yosemites, just a preference that I have learned about myself about roofs vs porros. Also, and very importantly, is the issue of "flare". I likely misspoke earlier when I mentioned this. I don't see any "flare" with these, in the sense of "exploding" light point sources, but I do see a LOT of reflections and ghost imaging that is not coming from light behind, but in front. For example, indoors, when panning around the huge expanse of Sportsman's warehouse, I would constantly see ghost images of the ceiling fluorescent lights, windows, skylights, etc., when they were no where in my FOV. This happened with none of the other binocs I evaluated today. That was quite distracting.

In conclusion, for a combination of better focusing, glare/reflection resistance, handling, and warranty (in that order), I was willing to spend the extra for the Monarchs. Slightly better color rendition and low light performance were the icing. I was willing to accept the size of the Monarchs, as they are not any larger than my previous choice. Also, my wife, who was really driving the weight/size issue, had no issues with the Monarchs, as they are so well balanced.

Assuming most people's experience of no focus wheel slop, these would be a great second pair or backup pair for me. I may have to consider them in the future when the stores around here get them in stock and I can evaluate the focus on the pair I get. My wife and I can't look through the Monarchs at the same time, and these are a real bargain for the money.

If you got through all that rambling, I applaud you... :)

Best,
Christopher
 
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That more people would be as exhaustive and informed in their selection process, whatever their parameters may be ...

You deserve to be as happy as you seem to be. Good going, Christopher!
 
Thanks for the Monarch comparison, 42mm and 36mm. I have a vague recollection that the 36mm might have a smaller, relative to the fov, sweet spot. But as the fov is not the same, and I never had the two in hand at the same time, I always wondered. With no other info on hand, I would always tend toward the 42mm, as they are not much heavier at all, and in no way big or bulky. I have the 10x version.

Happy birding! kinglets and one parula were out today for me.
 
The Yosemites are multi coated (MC) rather than fully multi coated (FMC) which might explain some of the flair and reflections seen indoors but I would think proper blackening of the interior and the inside rim of the barrels outside the objective lens's would minimize this.
Bob
 
Christopher,

Great job on the review - very informative and sensible. I hope you enjoy your Monarchs - certainly a popular choice.

Your comments on the Minox BDBRs are quite interesting to me, as I am leaning that direction at this time - perhaps even the HGs.

APS
 
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