Carrion Crow vs Common Raven (1 Viewer)

[mrpjdavis]

Any way, it s a Raven, based on the wedge-shaped tail.

Disagree. Even at that angle, the head and beak would look much bigger on a raven.

 

[gerdwichers8]

Tell me then,how this bird shows so many different sizes tailfeathers?

http://www.pbase.com/paullantz/image/43522996

 

[Mike Johnston]

The tail feathers of Carrion Crow are not all of equal length. T1 is 1-3cm longer than T6 in adults, 1-2.5cm in juveniles. In Raven this is 4-6cm (ad.) and 3-5cm (juv.). This bird is a juvenile. They do not moult juvenile tail going into first winter. I'll now retire and let the argument about measurements commence. :t:

 

[lockbreeze926]

Normally I wouldn't trust my own ID skills enough to be dogmatic, but if that is a "Raven", then I better make a late report to my local bird committee about this "Raven" I photographed in Milton Keynes in April......

 

[gerdwichers8]

which is a Carrion Crow, but why did they take a picture of it?
(Or dont they trust their identity skills?)

 

[lockbreeze926]

which is a Carrion Crow

Obviously - just like Simon's photo.

Which is the point.

 

[AlexC]

Am I the only one who's seriously confused about the last few posts?

 

[Edward woodwood]

Crow

long squarish tail

shortish wings

bill quite shallowly curved

and it 'appears' small and short-necked as far as i can see

 

[wintibird]

Just to make things clear from Momo's post: definitely no records from ravens below 200m in Switzerland and definitely no land in Switzerland below that.
Did I sense some aggressive statements in this thread? I prefer posts like the one from Tim with clear arguments and clear statements, not suggesting something but not write it out clear. But maybe I am just a little conservative.

Greetings to all Crows and Ravens out there
André

 

[gerdwichers8]

This tail would do for a Carrion Crow as well

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=28277

 

[lockbreeze926]

It is a Carrion Crow.

Apart from being black, it does not resemble a Raven in any way and indeed the original post really left no room for speculation.

I am confused as to why anybody's confused.

 

[Momo]

It is a Carrion Crow.

Apart from being black, it does not resemble a Raven in any way and indeed the original post really left no room for speculation.

Well that seems to have put paid to the underwater dwarf raven disguised as a crow theory. How about an abnormally large black goldcrest?

 

[gerdwichers8]

Be carefull there Momo..people may think you re aggressive!

About the bird: there is a large step between some tailfeathers.
The tailfeathers of a Carrion show small steps.
But, the adult Ravens in the link show these steps in their tails only as bigger steps.
One juvenile Raven, sitting on a pole didnt appear too impressive in body.

The tail of this bird shows some large steps and near the body it starts showing undertailcoverts which made me think to be tailfeathers as well. They are not.
Looking at the large steps of the remaining visible feathers, I dd say the bird is growing its tail. (Which already has been supposed, but I now find that proven)
Therefore I loose an important feature.

To judge on size allone: maybe allright, to judge on bill alone in this position: no, not me.

 

[gerdwichers8]

:'D :hi: Well, let m think.
Yesterday we had good fun with Tea in our noses and Caramel pudding on the TFT screen

 

[Xenospiza]

The feathers on the top of the bill do not reach the middle of the bill when measured from the gape towards the tip (as in Carrion Crow).
In Common Raven, the feathers would reach further towards the tip of the bill.
I find all other features difficult to judge in this picture. Apparent bill size, long square tail would be good for Carrion Crow, but the angle is so bad...

There must sometimes be Ravens in Switzerland below 200 metres: Lago Maggiore is at 195 m, so a Raven drinking there... I only saw pure and hybrid Hooded Crows in Ticino though... easy!

 

[gerdwichers8]

Thats a fine feature you point at Xeno, thanks but this bird is a juvenile, which makes me think (when I look at the juvenile bird in PaulLanz' gallery) that these feathers may be less grown, so again a bit tricky to be conclusive.
For adult birds its not always a sollid feature either.(but we run in extremes now)
Look at this bird (one of few that lack these)
http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/detail.cfm?imgnum=1374677

But this next juvenile proves that such thinking of mine needs to grow up to some higer altitudes

http://www.naturepl.com/bin/npl.dll...=0&_spe=0&_spw=0&mw=2&se=&searchtext=01124722

 

[Xenospiza]

From these pictures I conclude that American "Common Ravens" can show less feathering on the bill than European "Common Ravens"!

 

[gerdwichers8]

You try to raise some tea in my nose Xeno?

 

[jc001]

hi

I saw this one a while ago,its neck and size looked a bit Raven like to me.

 

[gerdwichers8]

You try to persuade us that it is not?