chiffchaff identification (1 Viewer)

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

thank you for the link, a quite interesting one

I watched all 3 Siberian Chiffchaff in the Warwickshire case study and all gave the peep call characteristic for Siberian Chiffchaff. We did not get one singing full song but I did hear a bit of sub-song from one.


Regards, John

 

[Ilya Maclean]

Surely all this talk of Siberian chiffchaffs is moot in the context of the photos, which look nothing like tristis?

Sibe’s have stonking white underparts and brown upper parts with a hint of buff, especially around the ear coverts and very little in the way of yellow / green. OK – so our knowledge of the taxonomy of Chiffs from the east is in a bit of a state of flux, but lets not lose sight of the wood for the trees. These don’t even approach abietinus, which also have white underparts, but are typically colder and greyer above, but do have green tones, especially in the wings.

I really can't see anything in these photos except standard collybita and fairly typical examples at that. No other race of chiffchaff has such obviously non-white underparts. OK so Iberian, Canary & Caucasian Mountain can't be ruled out on underpart tones, but only Iberian is even an outside contender and would need some rather more concrete evidence than looking and sounding bizarre to be given serious consideration.

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

Surely all this talk of Siberian chiffchaffs is moot in the context of the photos, which look nothing like tristis?

Sibe’s have stonking white underparts and brown upper parts with a hint of buff, especially around the ear coverts and very little in the way of yellow / green. OK – so our knowledge of the taxonomy of Chiffs from the east is in a bit of a state of flux, but lets not lose sight of the wood for the trees. These don’t even approach abietinus, which also have white underparts, but are typically colder and greyer above, but do have green tones, especially in the wings.

I really can't see anything in these photos except standard collybita and fairly typical examples at that. No other race of chiffchaff has such obviously non-white underparts. OK so Iberian, Canary & Caucasian Mountain can't be ruled out on underpart tones, but only Iberian is even an outside contender and would need some rather more concrete evidence than looking and sounding bizarre to be given serious consideration.

Ilya,
No one has identified this bird as Siberian Chiffchaff, obviously chiffchaff13 has an interest in the subject so the links are to further his knowledge on the sublect..
Dean & Sevenson have identified the far Eastern Siberian Chiffchaff (eastern Siberian plain) with plumage criteria and later broadened criteria to encompass fluvscents Siberian Chiffchaff of the Western Siberian plain with more yellows and olives in the plumage then there is a grey area, west of the urals where hybridisation between tristis and abientinus has been suggested by Russian observers.
The ringed bird in the Warwickshire Chiffchaff account was believed by Dean outside the limit of fluvescent Siberian Chiffchaff, however the bird gave the peep call (I use peep instead of long description like mournful
Bullfinch type call).
I have been told the sound approach team say whatever the bird looks like if it calls peep it's a Siberian Chiffchaff.
Abientinus can look like Collybita or like Siberian Chiffchaff fluvescent in the far NE of it's range.
There is a lot to learn about Siberian Chiffchaff and abientinus (particulary where abientinus winters) and genetic testing is ongoing.
I find this winter there are more reports of Siberian Chiffchaff rather than possible or probables due to people doing research on the subject. At Barrow-on Soar, Leicstershire last winter a bird deemed to be Siberian Chiffchaff on plumage but did not call, however as Spring approached the bird was heard to give the peep call and later started to sing.

Regards, John

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

Siberian Chiffchaff caught at Portland yesterday http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/aa_latestnews.htm and notice the effect of sunlight on the reed Warbler photo on 17/11/13.


Regards, John

 

[chiffchaff13]

very interesting, thank you. I'll return tomorrow to the place where I heard the chiffchaff with the monotonous and descending "p-hiu". there were also two dunnocks, that I couldn't photograph either.

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

very interesting, thank you. I'll return tomorrow to the place where I heard the chiffchaff with the monotonous and descending "p-hiu". there were also two dunnocks, that I couldn't photograph either.

Dunnock's have a short note a bit like Siberian Chiffchaff. John

 

[chiffchaff13]

ibericus ?

 

[chiffchaff13]

three photos, left aside at the time waiting for identification. thank you for your advice.

 

[Simon Wates]

Any more shots showing the primary projection more clearly? Cosmetically your bird fits in pretty well (1st impression), although I worry about photo being a bit over exposed. I assume its the bird you mentioned with the down-slurred call? If it is an Iberian it would be an exceptional date.

EDIT: I was referring to the first photo that you just posted and queried as poss. ibericus. I can't see that the following 3 photos are the same bird.

 

[chiffchaff13]

thank you. of course it is not the same bird, the first one (ibericus ?) was taken a few days ago. the three others late march 2011. at this period a few chiffchaffs in the park wore a beige/greyish plumage and looked quite different from the others.
about the first one, answering your question, I have this.

 

[KenM]

Image 1 and 5 look like collybita to my eye (pp looks shorter rather than longer),

Images 2,3 and 4 appear (In as much as we ''think'' we know?), appear to have a suggestion of a tristis look about them, although the yellow tint to the super, shoulder and vent on current thinking, should exclude these images from this taxa.

cheers

 

[chiffchaff13]

thank you, my guess is about the same about the tristis "look", this is why I put them aside all that time. as for the one "bathing" one, it remains a question for me, wings so so but neat eyebrow and belly was quite whitish. another variant ...

 

[Simon Wates]

thank you. of course it is not the same bird, the first one (ibericus ?) was taken a few days ago. the three others late march 2011. at this period a few chiffchaffs in the park wore a beige/greyish plumage and looked quite different from the others.
about the first one, answering your question, I have this.

I agree with Ken on this one - the PP does look too short for ibericus - also without the right call and considering the date I wouldn't even consider this species.

I'm sorry but regarding your other photos - I can't see any that look like a classic Siberian and again, without calls associated with any individual in particular its going to be impossible to come to any hard conclusions (IMO).

I salute you on looking and listening hard to your local Chiffchaffs - this is how folk detect the odd ones. With time you will be able to speedily dismiss the great majority of birds as regular ones. If a tristis pops up (sound or vision) I bet you will know quickly that you have found something different. Good luck!

 

[chiffchaff13]

thank you all. I'm learning.

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

thank you all. I'm learning.

Abietinus and Siberian Chiffchaff are still on the frontiers of Birding, a few years on, genetic testing may answer a few questions.
However Eastern Siberian tristis and narrow band fluvescents can be identified on Plumage and call, no doubt tristis exists beyond narrow band fluvescents.
Siberian Chiffchaff can appear Brown or Grey on uppers depending on position and lighting.
There are more Brown than Grey feathers, like human grey hair (colourless hair to be precise) which shines when the light hit's it.
So someone with sunlight or artificail light can appear Grey but in dull light the grey hairs don't shine and hair will look mostly Black or Brown (that's my view on plumage anyway).

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

Some pictures of abietinus Chiffchaff Finnish Website http://birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/phycol/

 

[chiffchaff13]

thank you

 

[KenM]

Some pictures of abietinus Chiffchaff Sweden http://birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/phycol/

An interesting selection John....Thought I'd throw this one in!...this was taken several years ago in the SE...any suggestions as to which race this might be ascribed to?

I am interested in what the 'general consensual' perceptions might be, regarding the variability of this challenging group.

Cheers

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

thank you

Should read Finnish Website and not Swedish, before corrected (copied by Ken)

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

An interesting selection John....Thought I'd throw this one in!...this was taken several years ago in the SE...any suggestions as to which race this might be ascribed to?

I am interested in what the 'general consensual' perceptions might be, regarding the variability of this challenging group.

Cheers

Just on the picture I believe most would say abietinus Ken.