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Chiffchaff or Willow Warbler (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Melih
- Start date
lou salomon
the birdonist
yes, both are willow warbler.
KenM
Well-known member
Also image 1. appears to show emarginations on 3,4,5,6 ?
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
This is one of those cases, where additional photos would be of great help, I think:
second one is a difficult Warbler for me: PP seems to be within variation for WW and Chiffchaff with about 2/3 or slightly more. i think pp cant be judged with certainty in this overlap cases, like here. It seems about 60 - 70 (75)%, I hope thats understandable.
Overall colouration with smooth, clean green, yellow and whitish tones gives this a WW look. But some Chiffchaffs I saw in winter in Germany gave a similar clean, smooth look. I googled images of "eastern" Chiffchaff of ssp abietinus and found matches. Strong legs with large feet and orange feet (better judged on the leg in the shadow) are better for WW.
I know, the length of p1 isnt a good character (having learned that from Grahame here: https://www.birdforum.net/threads/warbler-aberdeen-scotland.396616/#post-4090414. But I cant help, such a long p1 cant be dismissed?)
BUT: arent there really no more pictures, where for example the head pattern cant be seen? Because, this seems one more example where a single difficult pitfall picture is posted, but more "easier" pictures might be available. This is doesnt meant as an offense, but I dont know, how I can describe my thoughts in a more polite way. I hope, this is ok.
Same is for picture one: when I first saw, I thought: isnt this an Eastern Bonellis Warbler with such a good looking greenish wing-panel and a contrasting white eye-ring?
I have only seen WBW before, and this doesnt seem a WBW to me on a closer look: underparts are not silky white (they have a slight yellow-buffish tinge) and the head pattern seems not perfect: it lacks the distinct broad eye-stripe of many WBW and the eye-ring seems to be in the wrong position (it seems to "hang" below the supercilium in WBW, producing a distinct head-pattern together with the strong eye-ring in many WBW.
Conclusion? More pictures and more comments please!
If I would be forced to ID this two birds, I would say: first is an "Probable Chiffchaff P.c. unsurensis" and second a "cant decide Willow/Chiff".
Help!
second one is a difficult Warbler for me: PP seems to be within variation for WW and Chiffchaff with about 2/3 or slightly more. i think pp cant be judged with certainty in this overlap cases, like here. It seems about 60 - 70 (75)%, I hope thats understandable.
Overall colouration with smooth, clean green, yellow and whitish tones gives this a WW look. But some Chiffchaffs I saw in winter in Germany gave a similar clean, smooth look. I googled images of "eastern" Chiffchaff of ssp abietinus and found matches. Strong legs with large feet and orange feet (better judged on the leg in the shadow) are better for WW.
I know, the length of p1 isnt a good character (having learned that from Grahame here: https://www.birdforum.net/threads/warbler-aberdeen-scotland.396616/#post-4090414. But I cant help, such a long p1 cant be dismissed?)
BUT: arent there really no more pictures, where for example the head pattern cant be seen? Because, this seems one more example where a single difficult pitfall picture is posted, but more "easier" pictures might be available. This is doesnt meant as an offense, but I dont know, how I can describe my thoughts in a more polite way. I hope, this is ok.
Same is for picture one: when I first saw, I thought: isnt this an Eastern Bonellis Warbler with such a good looking greenish wing-panel and a contrasting white eye-ring?
I have only seen WBW before, and this doesnt seem a WBW to me on a closer look: underparts are not silky white (they have a slight yellow-buffish tinge) and the head pattern seems not perfect: it lacks the distinct broad eye-stripe of many WBW and the eye-ring seems to be in the wrong position (it seems to "hang" below the supercilium in WBW, producing a distinct head-pattern together with the strong eye-ring in many WBW.
Conclusion? More pictures and more comments please!
If I would be forced to ID this two birds, I would say: first is an "Probable Chiffchaff P.c. unsurensis" and second a "cant decide Willow/Chiff".
Help!
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Edit: after looking at picture one again, I think now its a "quite sure Common Chiffchaff" So my confidence has moved one step up, but I still hope for more comments, so I can learn. Thanks!
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