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Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler? (1 Viewer)

Jane Turner

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure that my out of context guess on this bird would have been Paddyfield! I see a rather fine bill for a Large Acro!
 

hannu

Well-known member
The size is quite relative feature in some cases, because the biggest small Acro has almost same size as smallest Large Acro (at least for the lenght of wing). But the view angle is very difficult....and very seldom we see pics in fresh plumage birds...
 
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hannu

Well-known member
The original photo is taken possibly in cloudy weather, so the some grey tones may disappear, which usually is visible in the photos. So the bird can show more brownish in this pic than other compared pics ???
 

gerdwichers8

Well-known member
hannu said:
The original photo is taken possibly in cloudy weather, so the some grey tones may disappear, which usually is visible in the photos. So the bird can show more brownish in this pic than other compared pics ???

Well, no, an influence of clouded weather will definitely not favour a rusty colour by eliminating the grey: on the contrary, it will subdue the warm tone; but not enforce it.
 

hannu

Well-known member
gerdwichers8 said:
Well, no, an influence of clouded weather will definitely not favour a rusty colour by eliminating the grey: on the contrary, it will subdue the warm tone; but not enforce it.

Possibly so... because pic is taken in october, what is the age of this bird, 1cy or older?
Svensson says that orientalis's tail feathers prominently tipped whitish in fresh plumage. Juvenile is pale golden rufous above with tendency to have faint pale feather-tips, and wing feathers and tail feathers are rather pale and dull brown, secondaries, tertials and tail feathers fringed buff,.. ...
 

gerdwichers8

Well-known member
hannu said:
Possibly so... because pic is taken in october, what is the age of this bird, 1cy or older?
Svensson says that orientalis's tail feathers prominently tipped whitish in fresh plumage. Juvenile is pale golden rufous above with tendency to have faint pale feather-tips, and wing feathers and tail feathers are rather pale and dull brown, secondaries, tertials and tail feathers fringed buff,.. ...

Positively,what makes me think is the contrast between the grey neck and other parts of the head: It may teach us something about a further age, when the bird wears its plumage.The pale tips apply right for the species in juvenile plumage;moreover the division of different colour between the plumageparts.
Nevertheless the "rather pale WF and TF" can't be comprehended from this pic.; moreover the pale in the "pale golden rufous" leaves me equally abandoned.
At last, I can't put aside the extent of the rufous colouration in a whole but especially seen near the side of the breast.
 

hannu

Well-known member
When I have seen photos on these "Eastern" species, I have to admit that this bird does neither match so well to Oriental Reed Wardler. Really difficult case....

Few Oriental RW
http://www.wwfchina.org/birdgallery/bpic/11597220511.jpg
http://www.wwfchina.org/birdgallery/bpic/11523617995.jpg

Gerd's proposal about Locustella-species is interesting.

Possibly only Locustella, which came to my mind, is Gray's Grasshopper Warbler Locustella fasciolata.
http://blog31.fc2.com/b/birdsworld/file/ezosennyuu01.jpg
http://www.hoku-iryo-u.ac.jp/~higuchi/ezosennyu.jpeg
http://www.nakashibetsu.jp/kyoudokan_web/photo/rco1/ikimono/2/ezosennyuu.jpg

One disturbing small detail is that I don't see pale outer web in P9 (or P2 in Svensson), which is visible nearly always...
 

Th_SQ

Well-known member
We have a single picture of a bird in a very difficult angle.
It's always interesting to have pictures found on the internet but saying "it's this or it's not that : just look at the picture" has shown it's limit in my opinion.
Especially if the pictures on internet show breeding adults ....
 
Th_SQ said:
We have a single picture of a bird in a very difficult angle.
It's always interesting to have pictures found on the internet but saying "it's this or it's not that : just look at the picture" has shown it's limit in my opinion.
Especially if the pictures on internet show breeding adults ....

agree (some pix might also be incorrectly 'labelled' as well)

They (ORW and CRW) are very tricky in the field in Asia - one pic on here will be very, very difficult. They vary widely over their range in several features inc primary projection..

I also think it may be something 'smaller' else as well. More pictures would help.

Tim
 

hannu

Well-known member
yep, using pictures on the internet is quite problematic, because birds on those pics are not always identified right. good example on that is that China bird pages...
 

hannu

Well-known member
Even we can't id this bird on this pic, it's still interesting to discuss about the case without pressure to get some one answer to the question...
 

Th_SQ

Well-known member
hannu said:
Even we can't id this bird on this pic, it's still interesting to discuss about the case without pressure to get some one answer to the question...

Agree ! It's an interesting bird an a very interesting discussion.

I reacted about an authoritative post (not yours) saying it's not that look at the pictures (which appear to show adults)
 

Jane Turner

Well-known member
I still can't get past the head structure - here is a blow up of the bird's head with a CRW in a similar pose for comparison. Notice how much slipmmer and shorter the bill appears, or if you like how much larger relatively the eye looks in the mystery.

I think we can crack this
 

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gerdwichers8

Well-known member
The fringing to the remex is mentioned for a juv. Oriental Reed in Svensson and HBW; This fringing cant be found for Clamorous in Svensson since he does not treat the species, but HBW does treat juv. Clamorous and does not mention such fringing on juv. Clamorous.
For the underside I cant follow HBW for Oriental Reed since it mentions it as "a slight yellowish tinge and a more richly washed tawny-buff"
Juv. Clamorous is mentioned to have "bright rusty ochre, especially on underparts"
 

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