Collared Flycatcher (Ficedula albicollis) vs European Pied Flycatcher (Ficedula hypoleuca) (1 Viewer)

[jbpixels]

I spotted a small group of flycatchers on migration today. On first sight Ficedula hypoleuca but going through my raw files made doubt about a safe ID on this one.
P L E A S E give me ID support.

Munich, today, park, oak grove and open woodland.

 

[KenM]

I spotted a small group of flycatchers on migration today. On first sight Ficedula hypoleuca but going through my raw files made doubt about a safe ID on this one.
P L E A S E give me ID support.

Munich, today, park, oak grove and open woodland.

To my eye it looks less like F.hypoleuca and more like F.albicollis, (which should occur in Munich?), the “white mark” from the Greater coverts looks perhaps too robust for F.h also there appears to be a white median covert bar in progress again not a F.hypoleuca feature, and if I may…add a very good shot jbpixels!👍

See what others say jb…..

 

[jbpixels]

To my eye it looks less like F.hypoleuca and more like F.albicollis, (which should occur in Munich?), the “white mark” from the Greater coverts looks perhaps too robust for F.h also there appears to be a white median covert bar in progress again not a F.hypoleuca feature, and if I may…add a very good shot jbpixels!👍

See what others say jb…..

Birds on migration. Thank you for your ID support and for your details.

 

[lou salomon]

1. it's a 1st winter black and white Ficedula (assymetrical width of white tertial tips).
2. in 1cy, median covert bars occure in all 3 European species
3. white patch to primary bases extends to p5 = too large for 1cy hypoleuca
4. grey behind auriculars and blackish primaries support the ID as albicollis.
5. call is an easy way to distinguish them in autumn (if they call).

 

[Brian J Small]

Lou

Your number 3 is incorrect. Some hypoleuca can show white onto p4, see below

https://ebird.org/checklist/S101027605

To my eyes it is within range for Pied - see 1st autumn Collared here

https://ebird.org/checklist/S96517869

Brian

 

[KenM]

Lou

Your number 3 is incorrect. Some hypoleuca can show white onto p4, see below

https://ebird.org/checklist/S101027605

To my eyes it is within range for Pied - see 1st autumn Collared here

https://ebird.org/checklist/S96517869

Brian

Does that exclude the cosmetics as being “out of range” for F.a. though Brian?

 

[lou salomon]

Brian,

that's an extreme Pied. You might agree that most 1cy hypoleuca show white up to p6 or at most p5 (which is in the overlap zone) and usually that patch is visually small in closed wing. But admittedly variation is huge, so I'd withdraw my statement 3 ("too large" should be extended to "too large for most..")

cheers

 

[Butty]

the cosmetics

What are these in English?

 

[KenM]

What are these in English?

Try using some imagination (in English)

 

[Butty]

Try being helpful?

 

[harr1y]

Try being a little less condescending you know exactly what he means .. this coming from the guy who's every other post contains " No offence "

 

[jbpixels]

Thank you for your ID support.

 

[Butty]

you know exactly what he means

'Fraid you're wrong (no offence). What does he mean?

 

[harr1y]

There goes the condescending again ... Your very helpful on this forum I'll give you that .... But also very snarky in the wording of your replies

 

[Butty]

So (again - no offence) could you be helpful and tell me what he means?

 

[KenM]

Back to “subject”…….

Cheers

 

[harr1y]

It's pretty obvious that Ken is talking about the amount of white on the primaries and asking if it definitely excludes a particular species ... The white on the primaries in this case being the cosmetics.... But I really had no need to clear that up for you as I said your comments can be snarky ..

 

[Butty]

It's pretty obvious that . . .

Condescending? Toi?

The white on the primaries in this case being the cosmetics

Thank you for your view on what was intended.