Collared Pratincole, UK? (1 Viewer)

[LaplandBunting]

Hi all,

I had two sightings of what I now believe to be a Collared Pratincole in Norfolk a few weeks back.

For those who know the area, the first sighting was along Beach Road in Salthouse. I caught a glimpse of a bird fly up from the marshes and across the road towards Cley and was instantly baffled. It was largely silhouetted in the dim morning light and rain but it's wings were long and pointed which contrasted with a comparably thin body, almost Tern-like in structure. I considered the usual Falcons but I got the impression this was slightly smaller and had a proportionally thinner body and longer wings. It's flight was striking as well, a short flap followed by a moment of stillness, then the same again, which it repeated as it swept through low to the ground. I probably haven't described that very well but I have watched a few videos of Collared Pratincoles in flight and it seems spot on. So, my first question is whether any other UK species has a similar flight pattern and body structure to Collared Pratincole? Whilst I say the sighting was silhouetted, my notes are consistent with the general colours of a Collared Pratincole too, so I see no issue there.

The second 'sighting' was at Holkham. It was much less of a sighting but upon reviewing my photographs of a Marsh Harrier, I found the following bird in the background (see below). After consultation with various ID guides I am relatively convinced that this could be a Collared Pratincole. I am more convinced given that one was reported in the general area a day or so beforehand. So, my second question, is this bird inadvertently photographed a good fit for Collared Pratincole?

If anyone can help answer either question I would be very grateful and interested to know.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LaplandBunting]

Size comparison attached.

Marsh Harrier to the left, Oyc to the right and Swift below to the right - although of course some were closer to me than others so there may be some slightly obscured perception issues.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Yes, it looks indeed good for a Pratincole. Lack of contrast in wing and overall colours of the upperwing fits a Black-winged Pratincole better than the other two.
But I am far of an expert, so surely others will jump in and help us.
Do you have more pictures? But I dont see a pitfall-picture here, and I cant see another common or scarce species here.

 

[LaplandBunting]

Yes, it looks indeed good for a Pratincole. Lack of contrast in wing and overall colours of the upperwing fits a Black-winged Pratincole better than the other two.
But I am far of an expert, so surely others will jump in and help us.
Do you have more pictures? But I dont see a pitfall-picture here, and I cant see another common or scarce species here.

Thanks Alexander.

Unfortunately there are no more images.

I would suggest if it is a Pratincole it is much more likely to be Collared given there was one in the area at the time and no records of a Black-winged in the UK since 2019. Of course, however, I am no expert and always willing to learn.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

If this is a pitfall-picture, which I believe it is not, than most similar non-Pratincole bird would be a aberrant coloured 2 cy Gull (Common, Med, Little, BH), so I hope for others to jump in

 

[Butty]

Small things: I think you should give the date for both - and... it's 'pratincole'
Salthouse one... Maybe - maybe not. Given that practically anything can look like practically anything else given duff-enough view, brief-enough view, light, angle, wing-attitude, etc etc etc (lots of etcs), then maybe you saw a pratincole - or didn't. In short, I can understand from your description why it made you think, but I don't see how you could ever take it any further given what you saw, can remember, etc.
Photo... As Alex says, it fits black-winged pratincole better than collared pratincole. But... I don't really think I could put my hand on my heart and exclude green sandpiper

Google Image Result for http://avesphoto.com/WEBSITE/pictures/SDPGRN-5.jpg

images.app.goo.gl

Ed: Aha, name corrected since I typed

 

[LaplandBunting]

Small things: I think you should give the date for both - and... it's 'pratincole'
Salthouse one... Maybe - maybe not. Given that practically anything can look like practically anything else given duff-enough view, brief-enough view, light, angle, wing-attitude, etc etc etc (lots of etcs), then maybe you saw a pratincole - or didn't. In short, I can understand from your description why it made you think, but I don't see how you could ever take it any further given what you saw, can remember, etc.
Photo... As Alex says, it fits black-winged pratincole better than collared pratincole. But... I don't really think I could exclude green sandpiper

Google Image Result for http://avesphoto.com/WEBSITE/pictures/SDPGRN-5.jpg

images.app.goo.gl

My apologies, date is 23rd of May give or take a day. I also did update the text when I realised I had been spelling "Pratincole" wrong.

Thank you for your input, I do see the similarity with Green Sandpiper and I guess that didn't cross my mind. I am of course not "taking it any further" but was very curious to just gather a few thoughts and see what people thought.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Thank you Butty from me too, from the description of a falcon/tern like bird and the flight action, a Green Sandpiper doesnt come into my mind and the picture, especially the shape and extent of the tail including the uniform tail-band doesnt reminded me of a Green SP, but you are right: it might be a bad pitfall-picture, and I missed one thing here. I remember the Jay-picture as an extrem bad example here, and it might be one more of those.

But if there was a Collared Pratincole on the day you saw this bird, it might well have been this species.

Another question to the experienced people here: if the upperwing colour, a dark, dirty brown tone with just (not) visible olive hue is real, is this within variation for a Collared? I know, there are rare variants with darker, more uniform upperwings of this species.
This is just a side question with personal interest and I hope that doesnt distract from this interesting picture.

 

[PYRTLE]

There was indeed a Collared Pratincole tracked and photographed along the N.N. coast. See www.cleybirds.com for images by one of the areas keen birders. For me, it is a Pratincole.

 

[SteveClifton]

Hi all,

I had two sightings of what I now believe to be a Collared Pratincole in Norfolk a few weeks back.

For those who know the area, the first sighting was along Beach Road in Salthouse. I caught a glimpse of a bird fly up from the marshes and across the road towards Cley and was instantly baffled. It was largely silhouetted in the dim morning light and rain but it's wings were long and pointed which contrasted with a comparably thin body, almost Tern-like in structure. I considered the usual Falcons but I got the impression this was slightly smaller and had a proportionally thinner body and longer wings. It's flight was striking as well, a short flap followed by a moment of stillness, then the same again, which it repeated as it swept through low to the ground. I probably haven't described that very well but I have watched a few videos of Collared Pratincoles in flight and it seems spot on. So, my first question is whether any other UK species has a similar flight pattern and body structure to Collared Pratincole? Whilst I say the sighting was silhouetted, my notes are consistent with the general colours of a Collared Pratincole too, so I see no issue there.

The second 'sighting' was at Holkham. It was much less of a sighting but upon reviewing my photographs of a Marsh Harrier, I found the following bird in the background (see below). After consultation with various ID guides I am relatively convinced that this could be a Collared Pratincole. I am more convinced given that one was reported in the general area a day or so beforehand. So, my second question, is this bird inadvertently photographed a good fit for Collared Pratincole?

If anyone can help answer either question I would be very grateful and interested to know.

Thanks in advance.

The first bird you saw but didn't photograph could well be a pratincole, but without a photograph or more detailed description we'll sadly never know for sure.

The second bird in your photos looks like a Lapwing with a couple of missing tail feathers. Completely wrong tail shape for a pratincole I'm afraid, but everything else is consistent with a Northern Lapwing: tail shape and shape of black band (of course ignoring the missing feathers); dark green/black uppers; in that 'flying away view' even a broad-winged species can look narrow-winged!

 

[LaplandBunting]

The first bird you saw but didn't photograph could well be a pratincole, but without a photograph or more detailed description we'll sadly never know for sure.

The second bird in your photos looks like a Lapwing with a couple of missing tail feathers. Completely wrong tail shape for a pratincole I'm afraid, but everything else is consistent with a Northern Lapwing: tail shape and shape of black band (of course ignoring the missing feathers); dark green/black uppers; in that 'flying away view' even a broad-winged species can look narrow-winged!

Thank you Steve.

Lapwing was a species that crossed my mind but I did not consider missing tail feathers. As you allude to, I also considered the impression of narrow wings sufficient to assume this was not a Lapwing, but there is no reason why the angle might not give a misleading appearance.

Interesting stuff nevertheless.

 

[Butty]

looks like a Lapwing with a couple of missing tail feathers

That also better fits (better than pratincole or green sandpiper) the OP's bird's odd rearward extension of black beyond the rear wing-edge and onto the rump/uppertail-coverts. (It's oddly difficult to find photos of a lapwing's upperside! - people must throw all their photos of that view away and keep the underneath ones in preference.)

 

[PYRTLE]

Am I going mad......Lapwings have rounded wing tips, hence the name. I'm looking at the centralish bird in the second picture. It's clearly not any shaped Lapwing I've ever seen. Eyes are tired after watching every game of the Euros and playing on - line chess at the same time.
Night all.

 

[SteveClifton]

Am I going mad......Lapwings have rounded wing tips, hence the name. I'm looking at the centralish bird in the second picture. It's clearly not any shaped Lapwing I've ever seen. Eyes are tired after watching every game of the Euros and playing on - line chess at the same time.
Night all.

Note the 'apparent' wing shape. Still a typical Lapwing!

 

[Butty]

Lapwings have rounded wing tips

...when seen flat-on.

Edit: Inappropriate comment removed.

 

[PYRTLE]

...when seen flat-on. Birds have a life outside of field guides.

Well I see we differentiate on this one.
Steve, the black and white tail pattern tail pattern in your posted image is starkly different to the subject bird.
Anyway, I still wish you all a good night.
We'll reconvene soon.

 

[Butty]

I enjoy your contributions but that is quite condescending for me

I apologise, and have removed the inappropriate comment.

Note the 'apparent' wing shape. Still a typical Lapwing! [linked photo]

...and tail-pattern (allowing for missing feathers) exactly matches the OP's bird.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Thank you Steve, after reading your answer I realised that I missed an important thing yesterday: there are actually two birds involved (sorry to the OP, it is clearly there in your first post. In Germany one says: "Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil").
And with a twisted wing, the white patch on the outer wing isnt visible

Sorry to Shorelark again, you made everything right and your posts described your observation right. I just coluldnt read yesterday.
And thanks to Butty who first realized, that this is actually a pitfall picture.