Common or Lesser Kestrel (1 Viewer)

[Earnest lad]

Please may I request advice.
I've just returned from 4 days in Sharm El-Sheikh, Egypt, after seeing ridiculously low air fare availability from the UK last week. The birding was great and I took lots of photographs. As this was my first trip to the region, the birds of that area were of course largely new to me. Consequently, I am not confident as to identity in quite a few cases. I hope to ask questions about several photographs over the next period if allowed, and would be grateful to receive advice from members

This post here is about a a sighting of a kestrel species. I am hoping it is a Lesser Kestrel, as that species would be a lifer for me. Please may I enquire as to reasons for any diagnosis provided as well as actual id itself.

 

[Butty]

Adult male common kestrel. Note spots (and other differences that your field guide will show).

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Please may I request advice.
I've just returned from 4 days in Sharm El-Sheikh, Egypt, after seeing ridiculously low air fare availability from the UK last week. The birding was great and I took lots of photographs. As this was my first trip to the region, the birds of that area were of course largely new to me. Consequently, I am not confident as to identity in quite a few cases. I hope to ask questions about several photographs over the next period if allowed, and would be grateful to receive advice from members

This post here is about a a sighting of a kestrel species. I am hoping it is a Lesser Kestrel, as that species would be a lifer for me. Please may I enquire as to reasons for any diagnosis provided as well as actual id itself.

Common Kestrel. Regarding: "note spots", here is a side by side comparison of both male birds and their upperparts (and the difference in the 'spots').

Edit: scroll down to figure 6.

Lesser Kestrel v Common Kestrel - Andalucia Bird Society

Lesser Kestrel Falco naumanni / Common Kestrel Falco tinnunculus The figure, Figure 1, to the left shows an adult male Lesser Kestrel (left) and an adult male Common Kestrel (right). Simple enough to see the difference, but in the field it can be hard to separate them. The females and juveniles...

www.andaluciabirdsociety.org

 

[Earnest lad]

Adult male common kestrel. Note spots (and other differences that your field guide will show).

Thank you so much. My heart was ruling my head, I suppose.

 

[Earnest lad]

Common Kestrel. Regarding: "note spots", here is a side by side comparison of both male birds and their upperparts (and the difference in the 'spots').

Edit: scroll down to figure 6.

Lesser Kestrel v Common Kestrel - Andalucia Bird Society

Lesser Kestrel Falco naumanni / Common Kestrel Falco tinnunculus The figure, Figure 1, to the left shows an adult male Lesser Kestrel (left) and an adult male Common Kestrel (right). Simple enough to see the difference, but in the field it can be hard to separate them. The females and juveniles...

www.andaluciabirdsociety.org

Thank you so much for the link and the diagnosis. I thought with the spots being somewhat sparse below and above, I might have got away with it. However I see now, it is indeed a Common Kestrel.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Thank you so much for the link and the diagnosis. I thought with the spots being somewhat sparse below and above, I might have got away with it. However I see now, it is indeed a Common Kestrel.

No bother, Earnest Lad.

'Good looking bird either way!.

 

[Earnest lad]

No bother, Earnest Lad.

'Good looking bird either way!.

Thank you so much. I just thought it looked a little different to the Kestrels seen at home in UK. Perhaps it is a different "subspecies". I must look that up.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

When I was in Sharm a good few years ago now, I noticed that the local common kestrels had a distinctly rufous breast and they looked very different to the UK variety.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

When I was in Sharm a good few years ago now, I noticed that the local common kestrels had a distinctly rufous breast and they looked very different to the UK variety

Presumably the sun would play a part in colour appearance?

Two local males: the first picture in overcast conditions; the second when the sun's going down but there is still sun shining on the bird. A distinct difference in colour of the breast.

The pictures posted by Earnest Lad look like a typical Common Kestrel to me, but yours does a look a bit different.

'Don't doubt you one bit, it's not a place I've been to and so I'm not in a position to say. I'd be interested to hear what's different about Earnest Lad's Kestrel: simply because it's a bird I never get tired of seeing and I'm curious about it.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Presumably the sun would play a part in colour appearance?

Two local males: the first picture in overcast conditions; the second when the sun's going down but there is still sun shining on the bird. A distinct difference in colour of the breast.

The pictures posted by Earnest Lad look like a typical Common Kestrel to me, but yours does a look a bit different.

'Don't doubt you one bit, it's not a place I've been to and so I'm not in a position to say. I'd be interested to hear what's different about Earnest Lad's Kestrel: simply because it's a bird I never get tired of seeing and I'm curious about it.

It was a definite feather colouration, not a reflection of the desert colour, or a white balance or colour cast problem with the photo. The branch was overlooking a well-watered hotel lawn, so if it were a relection, the colour cast should have been green, not desert red. The black claws define it as a common kestrel, amongst other features. The colouration was typical of the local birds.

The Canary Islands subspecies also shows a deep rufous tinge. This one was one of a gathering of 21 kestrels hunting (and eating) insects on the wing over a small banana plantation on Tenerife. I believe this colouration is responsible for many mis-reports of lesser kestrel in trip reports from the Canaries.

 

[01101001]

F.t rupicolaeformis: smaller, darker and more richly-coloured than the nominate

(Common Kestrel - BirdForum Opus)

F.t. canariensis: is small and dark

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

It was a definite feather colouration, not a reflection of the desert colour, or a white balance or colour cast problem with the photo. The branch was overlooking a well-watered hotel lawn, so if it were a relection, the colour cast should have been green, not desert red. The black claws define it as a common kestrel, amongst other features. The colouration was typical of the local birds.

The Canary Islands subspecies also shows a deep rufous tinge. This one was one of a gathering of 21 kestrels hunting (and eating) insects on the wing over a small banana plantation on Tenerife. I believe this colouration is responsible for many mis-reports of lesser kestrel in trip reports from the Canaries.

Cheers Barred Wobbler, 'very interesting.

 

[Earnest lad]

When I was in Sharm a good few years ago now, I noticed that the local common kestrels had a distinctly rufous breast and they looked very different to the UK variety.

I agree, and to my mind they were a bit more approachable (less shy) than the ones in the UK (as were maybe many other species)

 

[aeshna5]

I agree, and to my mind they were a bit more approachable (less shy) than the ones in the UK (as were maybe many other species)

Kestrels can be very tame here. Last week one was perched on a stump at the edge of a playing field locally & somebody walked past it down the adjacent pavement just a couple of feet away & it didn't flinch. Have seen quite a few Kestrels around here that aren't too bothered by human presence.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Kestrels can be very tame here. Last week one was perched on a stump at the edge of a playing field locally & somebody walked past it down the adjacent pavement just a couple of feet away & it didn't flinch. Have seen quite a few Kestrels around here that aren't too bothered by human presence.

I'd agree with Earnest Lad for the most part in that the vast majority of Kestrels do not appreciate human company, but then again all birds are like that. Blackbirds in the wild are nothing like the blackbird in your garden, unless someone is feeding the birds on some fence post or some such. Risk and reward I suppose.

I know of two places where the Kestrels are pretty tame by usual standards and I reckon that's due to lots of human activity in their hunting areas, particularly close by to where they hunt from posts or cliff faces. This female in the attached picture, perches on a series of posts on a long road leading down to a car park. She hunts in the fields on either side, including off these posts. She doesn't seem overly bothered by human activity; cars and cyclists go down that road all of the time and she doesn't budge. I reckon she's learned through experience that it's safe, or at least the hunting opportunities outweigh the risk. I've seen her and the male mate on a grass bank about 15 feet from my car. Most Kestrels, however, will move on before you get anywhere near them. I'm guessing that's because for the most part they're not used to perching near where there is a lot of human activity.

They're like completely different birds depending on the area/habitat. I know a place for Little Owls where they are extremely wary and they're off before you get within say 40 metres of them; that's in open country, farmland type habitat where they don't see many people, at least not close by anyway. On the other hand, I know a place for a Little Owl, which is on the coast, and I've walked past him roosting in a tree as plain as day for anyone to see; you don't even need to scan to see him. He sits in one of the same three bare leaved trees all of the time, except when he's in the crags in the cliff face and anyone who knows there's a Little Owl there cannot miss him and he doesn't budge an inch. The grass path is say 15 feet from where he roosts and relaxes and it has dog walkers walking past pretty much every couple of minutes, and so I reckon he's just used to people and couldn't care less when someone walks past. He's probably still keeping an eye on people going past, but he doesn't budge from 15 feet distance.

I reckon it could be a case of habitat and human activity close by, particularly when they're resting/conserving energy.

 

[Earnest lad]

I'd agree with Earnest Lad for the most part in that the vast majority of Kestrels do not appreciate human company, but then again all birds are like that. Blackbirds in the wild are nothing like the blackbird in your garden, unless someone is feeding the birds on some fence post or some such. Risk and reward I suppose.

I know of two places where the Kestrels are pretty tame by usual standards and I reckon that's due to lots of human activity in their hunting areas, particularly close by to where they hunt from posts or cliff faces. This female in the attached picture, perches on a series of posts on a long road leading down to a car park. She hunts in the fields on either side, including off these posts. She doesn't seem overly bothered by human activity; cars and cyclists go down that road all of the time and she doesn't budge. I reckon she's learned through experience that it's safe, or at least the hunting opportunities outweigh the risk. I've seen her and the male mate on a grass bank about 15 feet from my car. Most Kestrels, however, will move on before you get anywhere near them. I'm guessing that's because for the most part they're not used to perching near where there is a lot of human activity.

They're like completely different birds depending on the area/habitat. I know a place for Little Owls where they are extremely wary and they're off before you get within say 40 metres of them; that's in open country, farmland type habitat where they don't see many people, at least not close by anyway. On the other hand, I know a place for a Little Owl, which is on the coast, and I've walked past him roosting in a tree as plain as day for anyone to see; you don't even need to scan to see him. He sits in one of the same three bare leaved trees all of the time, except when he's in the crags in the cliff face and anyone who knows there's a Little Owl there cannot miss him and he doesn't budge an inch. The grass path is say 15 feet from where he roosts and relaxes and it has dog walkers walking past pretty much every couple of minutes, and so I reckon he's just used to people and couldn't care less when someone walks past. He's probably still keeping an eye on people going past, but he doesn't budge from 15 feet distance.

I reckon it could be a case of habitat and human activity close by, particularly when they're resting/conserving energy.

Thats very interesting. Thank you. Also, I notice sometimes at nature reserves the birds are relatively "tame" . Perhaps they realize the many humans in the vicinity do not pose a threat so they learn to give a measure of trust.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Thats very interesting. Thank you. Also, I notice sometimes at nature reserves the birds are relatively "tame" . Perhaps they realize the many humans in the vicinity do not pose a threat so they learn to give a measure of trust.

'Quite possible, coupled with risk and reward. I suppose the songbirds at nature reserves have a food incentive to be more confiding.

Then you have historical factors and birds learning from that, e.g. the Robin: in Britain the bird was considered a gardener's friend and everyone will have a Robin in their garden that hops around very close to them; in Europe, on the other hand, the Robin is nowhere near as confiding as a result of historical factors.

I've noticed that wintering birds can be very confiding also, e.g. Snow Bunting, and birds on migration: the Pied Wheatear that was up at the Whitley Bay coast, was happy perched on the railings near the beach while loads of people walked past the bird.

Going back to the Kestrel, I don't really go to nature reserves but I have read that Kestrels in those areas aren't as shy as the average Kestrel, so you could be onto something there. I suppose there is a history of persecution from say 100 years back and so I'd imagine they've learned from that past experience.

 

[Earnest lad]

'Quite possible, coupled with risk and reward. I suppose the songbirds at nature reserves have a food incentive to be more confiding.

Then you have historical factors and birds learning from that, e.g. the Robin: in Britain the bird was considered a gardener's friend and everyone will have a Robin in their garden that hops around very close to them; in Europe, on the other hand, the Robin is nowhere near as confiding as a result of historical factors.

I've noticed that wintering birds can be very confiding also, e.g. Snow Bunting, and birds on migration: the Pied Wheatear that was up at the Whitley Bay coast, was happy perched on the railings near the beach while loads of people walked past the bird.

Going back to the Kestrel, I don't really go to nature reserves but I have read that Kestrels in those areas aren't as shy as the average Kestrel, so you could be onto something there. I suppose there is a history of persecution from say 100 years back and so I'd imagine they've learned from that past experience.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information. During the trip to Egypt last week, I saw an Osprey perched less than 10 meters from me as I went by slowly in the car. In full view at close range I was able to fire off some photos, and it was completely unfazed by my presence. I gather this is normal for the local Ospreys. In Western Europe one would never I imagine see such a confiding Osprey. I cannot understand the reason for the difference in behaviour.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information. During the trip to Egypt last week, I saw an Osprey perched less than 10 meters from me as I went by slowly in the car. In full view at close range I was able to fire off some photos, and it was completely unfazed by my presence. I gather this is normal for the local Ospreys. In Western Europe one would never I imagine see such a confiding Osprey. I cannot understand the reason for the difference in behaviour.

When I was at Sharm in 2010 I hired a taxi for the big trips (st Catherine's, Ras Mohammed and Nabq Protectorate, driven by a Bedouin called Hussein, who couldn't have been more helpful. At Nabq, he dropped my off at the north end of the mangroves, opposite the Maria Schroeder shipwreck and arranged to meet me at the south end once I'd made my way around the mangroves on foot. As I made my way round I saw Hussein overtake me in his taxi as he made his way to a friend's bedouin hut (where we had tea and a snack made by his friend of chicken cooked in chickpeas - tasty and totally unexpected, although the unleavened bread we used to scoop up the chicken & chickpeas, baked under the charcoal of a fire the size of my hat was as hard as a quarry tile).

When I approached the hut, I saw an osprey flying along the beach towards it. Then it landed on a nest on which its mate was incubating. The nest was in a device that reminded me of a metal milk crate and mounted on a low pole, only about 50 m or less from the hut. Those ospreys just didn't give a stuff about proximity to people.

Photos below of the Bedouin hut where I dined (with my scope & tripod to the left of it) and the osprey nest, only metres away, with the mountains of Saudi Arabia in the distance.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information. During the trip to Egypt last week, I saw an Osprey perched less than 10 meters from me as I went by slowly in the car. In full view at close range I was able to fire off some photos, and it was completely unfazed by my presence. I gather this is normal for the local Ospreys. In Western Europe one would never I imagine see such a confiding Osprey. I cannot understand the reason for the difference in behaviour.

Nice picture Earnest Lad!

I wouldn't know anything about Ospreys as I've only ever seen two flying in the distance (and both times the bird was pointed out to me!). There is a reservoir near where I live, maybe 2 miles at the most, which is good for Osprey at the right time of the year. Also good for Peregrine. I've seen some outstanding photos of Ospreys from people who have that reservoir and its surrounding area as their patch.

'Sometimes, I think it depends on what a bird has on its mind also. I was once lying down taking pictures of Pied Flycatchers and a Red Kite came in and was just about to land on the top of a dead tree and did an about turn. Presumably it spotted me lying down and thought better of it. On another occasion, I'd been swimming and so didn't have my camera with me, turned the corner and there's a Red Kite preening itself on one of those black and white barriers that signal a sharp bend. 'Quite a busy road and around midday, but the bird was sat there preening itself about 5 feet from the road with cars flying past. I tend to take my camera everywhere, it was a lovely sunny day, sun in the right direction and so was gutted I didn't have my camera this time. 'Best I could do was park up and watch it. 'Must have watched the bird for about 5 minutes and it was still there on the barrier before I thought go and get my camera and I may get a miracle with the bird not going very far before my return. Needless to say that by the time I returned half an hour later, the bird had disappeared!

'Strange things do sometimes happen. I was once photographing a Buzzard that was ambling around a car park looking for insects and bits and pieces on the concrete car park floor. I was sat in my car, it really wasn't bothered about me one bit and that's a bird with a history of persecution! This was a small car park, room for about 10 cars.

Its that old and obvious thing: the more effort you put in, the luckier you'll get!