Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

[KnockerNorton]

Wow!

Harris hawks breeding? Can't say I'm surprised...

There's a red-tailed hawk breeding with a female common buzzard in Cambs, producing wild hybrid young.

 

[Amarillo]

why should the Eagle Owl only migrate to mainland Britain, why not to any other continent?

Other continent? Can you explain what you mean here?

Interesting post. Totally agree about the problem of real alien species and yes, birds like Harris Hawks need to be removed.

 

[Andrew]

real alien

What's a fake alien species?

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

Salty,

You are going about it the wrong way mate. If you have info on a breeding bird that you care about you should be keeping quiet about it. Seems you are looking for kudos?

Cheers,
Andrew

Andrew: The Barn Owl Centre works very hard in Barn Owl Conservation with over 700 nest boxes positioned in the countryside, a loose Eagle Owl/Harris Hawk will rip a project apart. The other side of our work is helping people who have taken on a bird of prey & no longer want it. We house at our Centre unwanted species & with this we educate ourselves & our pre-booked visitors about them & their abilities if put in a situation to hunt UK wildlife. There are bird watchers & there is the reality of something that is damaging to local wildlife, this is demonstrated using prepared food set in a wild environment, we do not hunt with our birds as this is forcing wildlife out to be chased & killed. I think a lot of people will judge the Eagle Owl for its beauty & fascination, I do but there is another side to this predator. They don't just eat Rabbits (White Meat), they will also take red meat to & lots of it.

With regards to so called migration, you have Europe where they are from, the UK where they are now, is there any other country where they have migrated to or is it just the UK.

 

[Amarillo]

With regards to so called migration, you have Europe where they are from, the UK where they are now, is there any other country where they have migrated to or is it just the UK.

This explains my earlier confusion. You talk of the UK as if it is not part of Europe!

The programme the other day talked of them flying 300km from Switzerland to France and Italy. In comparison crossing the North sea from Scandinavia or Holland to the UK is a short hop.

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

This explains my earlier confusion. You talk of the UK as if it is not part of Europe!

The programme the other day talked of them flying 300km from Switzerland to France and Italy. In comparison crossing the North sea from Scandinavia or Holland to the UK is a short hop.

Amarillo: If you look at this map on the below link you will see that the above countries you have mentioned & mentioned in the program are on one land mass, travelling across land is easy but across the water is another matter. http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/europe.htm

The 300km flight was the only bit of evidence they have regarding its long flight. Working with Eagle Owls my self this I would question. Eagle Owls are also found in Russia

 

[Amarillo]

What's a fake alien species?

What I meant by a REAL alien species, is one from a different continent, totally different ecosystem

eg Harris Hawk, parakeets, grey squirrels, ruddy duck.

I see eagle owls as very different, as they are european birds. Whether or not they occur naturally in Britain, european species are highly unlikely to cause problems with our wildlife because they live with the same species on the continent.

egs. Red-legged partridge, little owl

 

[Isurus]

"LOST-TURKEY VULTURE-North Yorkshire"

!!!

An interesting post from the Barn Owl Centre raises many interesting points.

a) I think we can all agree that every effort should be made ot recapture or otherwise stop breeding US escapees/releases?
b) The (ab)use of birds of prey as a loophole in the hunting with dogs legislation is very troubling indeed
c) should birds of prey in captivity be licensed? is such a scheme even workable.

thanks for your contribution - hopefully you'll stick around and keep us informed on your owl conservation work (and possibly explain to my dad why his homemade owl box has a pair of jackdaws in it!).

 

[Amarillo]

Amarillo: If you look at this map on the below link you will see that the above countries you have mentioned & mentioned in the program are on one land mass, travelling across land is easy but across the water is another matter. http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/europe.htm

The 300km flight was the only bit of evidence they have regarding its long flight. Working with Eagle Owls my self this I would question.

OK, I accept that the water is a different matter, but the channel at its narrowest point is about 25km wide.

Another piece of evidence of long flights, was the distance travelled by one of the Yorkshire offspring (to Shropshire)

I'm not saying that I think the eagle owls in Britain have crossed the sea from other parts of Europe. But no-one can dismiss the possibility entirely. And no-one can dismiss the possibility that they lived in the UK originally. Even if they are escapees, and they never lived in the UK, they are still a european bird which fits into our ecosystem just as easily as it does in Sweden or Holland.

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

What I meant by a REAL alien species, is one from a different continent, totally different ecosystem

eg Harris Hawk, parakeets, grey squirrels, ruddy duck.

I see eagle owls as very different, as they are european birds. Whether or not they occur naturally in Britain, european species are highly unlikely to cause problems with our wildlife because they live with the same species on the continent.

egs. Red-legged partridge, little owl

I think the main concerns for people like ourselves is this. Now the Eagle is being classed as a British bird by the BTO, will people now be encouraged to release more unwanted Eagle Owls, if this happens then this would be bad. An Eagle is only worth £100, they are even being given away as unwanted & this is to just anyone without experience. Nobody in the UK not even DEFRA really knows how many captive bred Eagle Owls are kept in peoples back gardens.

 

[Amarillo]

I think the main concerns for people like ourselves is this. Now the Eagle is being classed as a British bird by the BTO, will people now be encouraged to release more unwanted Eagle Owls, if this happens then this would be bad. An Eagle is only worth £100, they are even being given away as unwanted & this is to just anyone without experience. Nobody in the UK not even DEFRA really knows how many captive bred Eagle Owls are kept in peoples back gardens.

The answer is simple. Make it an offence to keep a bird of prey without a license. To be honst I can't believe there isn't already a requirement. Obviously people might still keep birds illegally, but it would minimise the problem.

Could you clarify - has the eagle owl now been classified as a british bird by the BTO?

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

"LOST-TURKEY VULTURE-North Yorkshire"

!!!

An interesting post from the Barn Owl Centre raises many interesting points.

a) I think we can all agree that every effort should be made ot recapture or otherwise stop breeding US escapees/releases?
b) The (ab)use of birds of prey as a loophole in the hunting with dogs legislation is very troubling indeed
c) should birds of prey in captivity be licensed? is such a scheme even workable.

thanks for your contribution - hopefully you'll stick around and keep us informed on your owl conservation work (and possibly explain to my dad why his homemade owl box has a pair of jackdaws in it!).

Thanks Isurus: In refererence to Jackdaws & Owl Boxes. What I have written below some of it is going to sound negative.

There is no such thing as an Owl box, all an Owl box is, is an hole leading to a cavity. The question is what will move into that cavity?
Barn Owl, Little Owl, Tawny Owl, Kestrel. Then we have
Jackdaw, Squirrel, Stock Dove, Wasp & Hornet.

If a sign was to be put on the box saying Owls only then Owl conservation would be a simple exercise. Owls don't read lol.

Nest boxes that are suitable for Owls should be positioned in areas where the food supply is, the shorter the distance the Owl needs to fly is important. The location of the box should be made visible from a distance to any passing Owl. If you have Jackdaws in the box they would have filled the box full of twigs, these need to cleared out & if it re-occurs evict the Jackdaws. When inspecting a box put up for Owls during the breeding season the person will need to be licensed. Information on this can be found by visiting English Natures web site. Even I need to be licensed to inspect our boxes. If going into the box to clear the twigs out, be very careful as there might be an Owl in it, you will not know. For safety measures never put ones face in front of the entrance as the talons can be very damaging to ones face.

If you wish you could get your dad to call me at the Centre, if I can help I will.

I hope the above makes sense

Vincent Jones
Barn Owl Centre
www.barnowl.co.uk
Tel: 01452 865999

 

[Strandman]

Vincent Jones
Barn Owl Centre
www.barnowl.co.uk
Tel: 01452 865999

Thanks for the above- do you have a feel for what proportion of captive E Owls are smaller bengalenseis types, as opposed to W European E owls? Or is the captive stock in fact pretty mixed up?

 

[Mary]

I think the main concerns for people like ourselves is this. Now the Eagle is being classed as a British bird by the BTO, will people now be encouraged to release more unwanted Eagle Owls, if this happens then this would be bad. An Eagle is only worth £100, they are even being given away as unwanted & this is to just anyone without experience. Nobody in the UK not even DEFRA really knows how many captive bred Eagle Owls are kept in peoples back gardens.

Has the BTO made a statement on this issue? I can't find one. Or do you mean RSPB? Quite different organisations, I think.

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

Has the BTO made a statement on this issue? I can't find one. Or do you mean RSPB? Quite different organisations, I think.

Because of the role our organisations plays in supporting both wild & captive bred birds I am very bewildered to why both the RSPB & the BTO haven't answered the questions I have put to them. They both seem to be working in opposite directions & with regrads to DEFRA they haven't a clue also. Hopefully I will be talking to all 3 parties today to find out what the hell is going on. The Eagle Owl programme as caused so much confusion with some supporting the idea of them being wild & some simply condoning it.

When DEFRA, RSPB & BTO sort themselves out I think we all will know. I am also in communication with English Nature to try & get answers from them.

The question I want answered is if I get called out to an Eagle Owl do I leave it where is it is or do I try & recapture it. The problem with this is people do cut off captive tags, anklets & jesses making its its true ID wild or captive impossible to judge.

 

[London Birder]

some sobering reading there from BOC ... ok, so now we have 11 pairs breeding in the UK (what's the commonest race in captivity? Bengalensis?) so assumedly the 40 pairs figure cannot refer to breeding pairs (if that is a figure to be relied upon) ...

BOC, a question you may be able to answer > apparently in the last week or so EO has gained some sort of legal protection (it was a footnote to the repeat of the recent Yorks EO's on TV), possibly passed down by the EU (?), do you know anything about that?

Another thing that interests me is what's the predominant race in Holland. The population there is thought to have all originated from escapes/releases (so I gather) ... is the European race commonly held in captivity and are the Dutch birds a mixture of taxons?

 

[Isurus]

What I have written below some of it is going to sound negative.

There is no such thing as an Owl box, all an Owl box is, is an hole leading to a cavity. The question is what will move into that cavity?
Barn Owl, Little Owl, Tawny Owl, Kestrel. Then we have
Jackdaw, Squirrel, Stock Dove, Wasp & Hornet.

Thanks for the information regarding clearing it out - Not negative at all (or at least not as negative as my comment on first seeing it "tenner says you get a pair of jackdaws"!).

 

[cheshirebirder]

Hi Keith, thanks for the reply. The scale of the problem is getting like the cat & dog situation. There are rescue centres popping up everywhere to pick up the pieces. The Eagle Owl situation is one thing, I dread the devastion the Harris Hawk will create if they take residence.

It is a fact that Eagle Owls will take & drive a localised Owl population away, this I have witnessed on a few accounts, finding Barn Owl & Tawny Owl carcusses around a site where I have been called out to a few escappees tells me everything. A Barn Owl innocently out hunting to survive will end up as prey to an Eagle Owl or even a Harris Hawk. For conservation benefits I think the BTO are creating huge problems for the future. These birds should have been recaptured & taken over to Europe for release. They do not belong here!

Some like the idea of Eagle Owls in the UK, I work with them every day & night & beleive me they are a fascinating bird to work with & to understand but in the wild is bad for our wildlife. We are only a small island aren't we.

So it's ok to release them in Europe to prey on their barn owls etc. ? The pair in Yorkshire are almost certainly escapes but on the near continent they are expanding so it only a matter of time before genuine migrants find their way here. Then we will have to either accept them or do what I don't think we've ever done before - eliminate a species just because some people don't fancy them on our little island.In europe they are part of the natural food chain and I for one don't see any problem with that situation over here.All predators take prey! Do we eliminate all the others? One thing's for sure , you won't find many corncrakes in eagle owl pellets - what a ridiculous example for an RSPB official to quote!

 

[johnraven]

Some like the idea of Eagle Owls in the UK, I work with them every day & night & beleive me they are a fascinating bird to work with & to understand but in the wild is bad for our wildlife. We are only a small island aren't we.

What if they colonised naturally from Holland? Would that change your view? I can imagine that if a pack of wolves swam over from Russia and colonised, a lot of people would want them exterminated even though it would have been "natural". Similar thoughts around Indian House Crow too, I believe. So this might translate to Eagle Owls. But there is something slightly unnerving about managing nature so tightly. Perhaps I should get over it, we hardly live in a natural environment any more.

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

some sobering reading there from BOC ... ok, so now we have 11 pairs breeding in the UK (what's the commonest race in captivity? Bengalensis?) so assumedly the 40 pairs figure cannot refer to breeding pairs (if that is a figure to be relied upon) ...

BOC, a question you may be able to answer > apparently in the last week or so EO has gained some sort of legal protection (it was a footnote to the repeat of the recent Yorks EO's on TV), possibly passed down by the EU (?), do you know anything about that?

Another thing that interests me is what's the predominant race in Holland. The population there is thought to have all originated from escapes/releases (so I gather) ... is the European race commonly held in captivity and are the Dutch birds a mixture of taxons?

Whats the common species in captivity? Good question. Most would say the European Eagle Owl. The Bengal Eagle Owl isn't going to be far behind. The problem DEFRA, BTO RSPB & Falconry world have is that nobody relly knows what the numbers are in captivity & where they all are. Nobody knows the extent of breeding in captivity & there isn't a register. This is very similar to Cats, Dogs, Reptiles & harmful Insects.

I have just got off the phone to the RSPB. The breeding pair in yorkshire now have legal protection, that is confirmed!! I wonder whats next :gn: