Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

[London Birder]

Isurus, the figures range from the official RBBP numbers, up to c.11 pairs, and up to 40 'pairs' at large at the moment

 

[Strandman]

why do the bto need authority to ring the chicks? I thought they were the supreme authority on ringing in this country?

UK Gov (through DEFRA) is the licensing authority under W C Act. But if some aspect of licensing is a bit fiddly/technical/administratively burdensome, DEFRA can decide to delegate it to some non gov body who hopefully knows what it is doing. So BTO is indeed in charge of ringing, but only because DEFRA has delegated power to it.

Hope that makes sense. Maybe there's a ringer on this thread who can chip in so that we can add to the current total (currently estimated at 3) of facts confirmed on the thread so far...

 

[London Birder]

I think we've independently summarised the whole matter probably more times now than there are EO's in the UK

 

[Mike Pennington]

UK Gov (through DEFRA) is the licensing authority under W C Act. But if some aspect of licensing is a bit fiddly/technical/administratively burdensome, DEFRA can decide to delegate it to some non gov body who hopefully knows what it is doing. So BTO is indeed in charge of ringing, but only because DEFRA has delegated power to it.

Hope that makes sense. Maybe there's a ringer on this thread who can chip in so that we can add to the current total (currently estimated at 3) of facts confirmed on the thread so far...

I am a ringer, but that's incidental, as I don't know the politics of it. I don't think DEFRA delegated power, as the BTO pre-dates it, but I suspect that DEFRA sets the rules BTO currently work within.

Ringing the Eagle Owls chicks does make perfect sense given that the adults are of unknown origin (so can't be legally recaptured it would seem) and the chicks are protected by EU law as being wild-bred. If we ring all known chicks we have a chance of knowing whether the resultant population (if any) originates from known breeding attempts or from other sources (most likely IMO, other escapes). We already KNOW that British-bred chicks may disperse over a relarively wide area.

 

[Mike Pennington]

Two completely different questions.

What is the Barn Owl Centre stand on the dubious practise of releasing captive-bred Barn Owls in the wild?

If the legislation applies to Eagle Owls than ANY species in the EU that breeds in the wild is automatically protected. So, if we surrepticiously release a pair of wolves in Scotland ...

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

Two completely different questions.

What is the Barn Owl Centre stand on the dubious practise of releasing captive-bred Barn Owls in the wild?

If the legislation applies to Eagle Owls than ANY species in the EU that breeds in the wild is automatically protected. So, if we surrepticiously release a pair of wolves in Scotland ...

Releasing captive bred Barn Owls to the wild is illegal - Life span of a wild bred Barn Owl averages about 1-5years, captive bred Barn Owls in captivity estimated 20-25 years. I think captive bred Barn Owls should be left well out of this thread. because they die very quickly if released, you should know that being a BTO ringer.

Why do some people think that Scotland is the ideal location to release a Wolf? It doesn't take much effort for a pack of wolves to spread to England. Mike why not release them on Shetland & see how the local wildlife deal with it.

Releasing Wolves in the UK is the most outragous thought to enter anyones mind.

 

[StevieEvans]

This was an interesting thread.

 

[Keith Reeder]

Vince,

I don't believe for a second that Mike is suggesting that anyone should release wolves.

What he's pointing out is a possible loophole in the EU legislation that is protecting the offspring of the Yorkshire eagle owls: if it protects born-in-the-UK owls, would it also protect any wolves that were born of illegally released parents?

 

[Strandman]

Two completely different questions.

If the legislation applies to Eagle Owls than ANY species in the EU that breeds in the wild is automatically protected. So, if we surrepticiously release a pair of wolves in Scotland ...

Not quite- the much discussed legislation creating the Eurobird is the Wild Birds Directive. Wild animals have a different definition to wild birds under the W & C Act but that's for another thread methinks (and I don't keep my copy of the act handy at weekends)!

 

[Isurus]

Releasing Wolves in the UK is the most outragous thought to enter anyones mind.

well I can think of more outrageous suggestions (leopards anyone) but yeah it clearly isn't a good idea on the fly - as has been addreesed I think this was meant to point out a flaw in the european legislation. There are I would expect derrogations for safety/health as there is for most other legislation.

I'm fairly sure I read about some jokers who were planning to release a load of lynx if the hunting bill were passed. who knows whats already out there. :C

 

[Pugs]

I'm fairly sure I read about some jokers who were planning to release a load of lynx if the hunting bill were passed. who knows whats already out there. :C

Alien big cats springs to mind
:eek!:

 

[Mike Pennington]

Releasing captive bred Barn Owls to the wild is illegal - Life span of a wild bred Barn Owl averages about 1-5years, captive bred Barn Owls in captivity estimated 20-25 years. I think captive bred Barn Owls should be left well out of this thread. because they die very quickly if released, you should know that being a BTO ringer.

I know, that's why I was asking as there was a group in the 1980s who thought that releasing captive-bred Barn Owls was a good idea. Glad we agree.

Why do some people think that Scotland is the ideal location to release a Wolf? It doesn't take much effort for a pack of wolves to spread to England. Mike why not release them on Shetland & see how the local wildlife deal with it.

Releasing Wolves in the UK is the most outragous thought to enter anyones mind.

Well, as people have pointed out I was picking a hole in EU legislation, but should, as someone has pointed out, chosen another bird, not a mammal.

As it happens though, there are people who do suggest releasing wolves into the wild in Scotland, although public opinion is against them. Under current guidelines the scheme could be approved as the species is a former native and they would control the rampant deer population. Releasing them on Rhum seems to be the nearest they'll ever get to Scotland though, and I think plans for this have been shelved indefinitely.

There would be no excuse for releasing wolves in Shetland as they have never been native here. Even hedgehogs are bloody dangerous here ...

 

[Barn Owl Centre]

Hi Mike if what I wrote seemed to be directed at you I am sorry. It wasn't really picking at you but sometimes the mention of certain subjects really wind me up. I must learn to keep me gob shut now & again lol.

 

[Mike Pennington]

Hi Mike if what I wrote seemed to be directed at you I am sorry. It wasn't really picking at you but sometimes the mention of certain subjects really wind me up. I must learn to keep me gob shut now & again lol.

No offence taken. I was playing devil's advocate anyway! Although the wolf stuff is true ...

 

[Amarillo]

Releasing Wolves in the UK is the most outragous thought to enter anyones mind.

Thats a very bizarre thing to say. The reason this discussion is going on so long, is because of the doubt whether eagle owls are native or not.

Thats is not an issue with wolves. We know for a fact that wolves belong here, and the only reason they are no longer here, is because we wiped them out. In an age where we are trying to undo some of the mistakes of the past, there are very good arguments for reintroducing wolves to the UK. There is plenty of suitable habitat (in Scotland), and plenty of deer which need some form of control. The only issue against it is with farmers, who will lose a few sheep. Other than that, I can't see any other problems.

 

[savethebirds]

Releasing captive bred Barn Owls to the wild is illegal - Life span of a wild bred Barn Owl averages about 1-5years, captive bred Barn Owls in captivity estimated 20-25 years. I think captive bred Barn Owls should be left well out of this thread. because they die very quickly if released, you should know that being a BTO ringer.

Why do some people think that Scotland is the ideal location to release a Wolf? It doesn't take much effort for a pack of wolves to spread to England. Mike why not release them on Shetland & see how the local wildlife deal with it.

Releasing Wolves in the UK is the most outragous thought to enter anyones mind.

Mike why not release them on Shetland & see how the local wildlife deal with it. .[/QUOTE]
No releases ever on Foula....PLEASE!

 

[cheshirebirder]

I'm pretty sure the re-introduction of the wolf has been seriously considered in recent times , and the number of deer do need to be controlled. The problem is that we don't have large areas of wilderness left do we ? I know Scotland has large open areas but they are still " farmed" and the wolves would soon come into conflict with domestic livestock. Wouldn't a wolf find a sheep much easier prey than a deer ? It's also interesting that we used to have brown bear and beaver. Has our development of the countryside gone too far for the re-introduction of larger mammals ?

 

[Keith Reeder]

Anyone see BBC2's "A Winter in the Cairngorms" (or somesuch) last night?

Very interesting section on the wolves that are already "wild" (albeit in a large reserve) in the Highlands...

 

[Isurus]

As a member of the wilderness society/trees for life pointed out at their recent talk in London, given the total failure of proposals to rerelease cute, fluffy, non-dangerous beaver into Scotland, Wolves are looking rather unlikely.

 

[Keith Reeder]

Bet you wish you'd seen my post before you sent yours, Isurus!