Fuji F30 - more thoughts (1 Viewer)

[iporali]

The new Canon A630/640 have a rotatable screen which may overcome this shortfall.

But - unfortunately for us digiscopers - the A630/640 still have a 4x zoom which A) requires very-long-eye-relief EPs (none of which are wide-angled), B) requires hand-holding to the eyepiece or dangerous fiddling with adjustable adapters or C) suffers from vignetting/narrow fields of view.

Ilkka

 

[Paul Jarvis]

But - unfortunately for us digiscopers - the A630/640 still have a 4x zoom which A) requires very-long-eye-relief EPs (none of which are wide-angled), B) requires hand-holding to the eyepiece or dangerous fiddling with adjustable adapters or C) suffers from vignetting/narrow fields of view.

Ilkka

Sorry. Disagree, my A620 works fine and that has 4x zoom so I don't see why these would be any different. There is no truth in those points you make IMO. I'm using it with and opticron SDL eye piece. Which scopes and eyepieces have you tried them with?

 

[Paul Jarvis]

neil i've checked the canon's website but couldn't find the A630/640 models ...

If you type A630 or A640 in the search they are there with a full list of features.

 

[iporali]

Sorry. Disagree, my A620 works fine and that has 4x zoom so I don't see why these would be any different. There is no truth in those points you make IMO. I'm using it with and opticron SDL eye piece. Which scopes and eyepieces have you tried them with?

Sorry Paul - I did not make my point very clear ... and maybe cut some corners too. Actually I agree with you that the A620 (and most probably A630/640) works "fine" and it also has many excellent usability features for digiscoping. But if you use an adapter adjusted by the zoom's maximal extension, you have to zoom in quite a lot to get rid of vignetting - much more than with the A95 which only had a 3x zoom. I have tried the A610 & A620 with my Swaro 20xSW (16 mm ER) & 20-60x zoom (18 mm ER) - and yes, IMHO the newer Canons do produce more vignetting with both eyepieces. I am a little obsessed with narrow FOV, because I have too many pics with just the head of the bird - or even worse: everything else except the head...

Best regards,

Ilkka

 

[jvanoyen]

F30 question

I'm still using the F30 on a regular basis as backup to the Olympus 7070wz which I prefer for reasonable light and slow subjects, but when the light gets dim or the action gets furious , I switch to the Fuji. My biggest gripe with the F30 is the non-rotatable screen. It is very difficult to focus on the screen unless it's straight in front of the eyes (unless you switch to vertical mode which for some reason makes the screen easier to see from above ), so if you are angled up into the trees on a straight scope you have to crouch down. The new Canon A630/640 have a rotatable screen which may overcome this shortfall. Here are some recent photos , some taken in low light.Neil.

Niel, Great pictures. All taken with the F30? What scope. etc?
I just ordered the F30. Thanks so much for your anticipated reply.
Jerry

 

[Neil]

I'm using the Swarovski STS80HD scope with a variety of eyepieces. My main eyepiece these days is the Swarovski 30x which works well with the Swarovski DCA adapter , but I also use the older Swarovski 22x and their 20-60 zoom. Neil.

 

[Paul Jarvis]

Sorry Paul - I did not make my point very clear ... and maybe cut some corners too. Actually I agree with you that the A620 (and most probably A630/640) works "fine" and it also has many excellent usability features for digiscoping. But if you use an adapter adjusted by the zoom's maximal extension, you have to zoom in quite a lot to get rid of vignetting - much more than with the A95 which only had a 3x zoom. I have tried the A610 & A620 with my Swaro 20xSW (16 mm ER) & 20-60x zoom (18 mm ER) - and yes, IMHO the newer Canons do produce more vignetting with both eyepieces. I am a little obsessed with narrow FOV, because I have too many pics with just the head of the bird - or even worse: everything else except the head...

Best regards,

Ilkka

The A620 is by no means the best out there now but with a little patience it is possible to get some decent shots. Just take a look in my gallery. I should say as well I have only used this camera with my scope, so it is hard for me to compare with other scopes. But Gerry gets excellant shots through his Zeiss.

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

Yes have a look at his gallery under the name of Jourdaj and you will be amazed at the quality of his photos using the Canon A620 which has been labelled as unsuitable for digiscoping. Calls for a rethink on this camera and now the later A630 and A640.

 

[Neil]

Canon A640 v Fuji F30

I've taken the plunge into Canon territory for the first time to see what all the talk is about with the new A Series models. I picked up the new A640 the other day. Unfortunately it's been raining almost continuously since so I haven't done much testing but these are my first impressions. I love the rotatable screen. I wish the Fuji 30 had one as it's it's biggest drawback. The menu system looks good and 10 megs certainly gives a lot of detail.
I tested it out on several eyepieces (Swarovski 30x, Swarovski 22x,Scopetronix Maxview S (40mm plossl) and on my Kowa Scope with the 27x LER eyepiece which has 32 mm of Eye Relief. The A640 likes a lot of Eye Relief to get rid of vignetting without having to use too much zoom. I notice with most of the images I seen with this camera that there is slight darkening in the corners. I would estimate you need about 25 mm plus of Eye Relief and a 20x or less scope eyepiece ( I was using the Scopetronix EZ-Pix 1 universal adapter for these tests but I have the Canon adapter on order). It seems to work best if you can adjust the camera position to keep the two lenses close together at Wide and Tele. With the Swarovski 22x and the Scopetronix adapter I was able to slide the camera in at wide zoom by 1.5 cm and then slide it out at the long end of the zoom. The lens does protrude a fair bit at long zoom and behaves strangely in the mid zoom which I haven't played with yet.
Out in the field I loved the programmable Self-Timer. You can select the number of seconds and the number of frames. Fantastic. I missed a remote though which the F30 doesn't have either. The frame rate of 1.5 per second is a bit slow these days which I found annoying when the bird was moving around.
In the composite test attached, (Canon on the left,Fuji on the right )the images from the two cameras are very similar but the Canon seemed to do a better job of the Greens and had no "purple fringing" which was apparent around the waterfall in the resevoir (this has been mentioned as a major fault of the F30 although I haven't noticed it as a drawback and I haven't had to do anything to correct it in the images posted recently in my Gallery.
I will post more images when the rain stops. Neil

 

[iporali]

Thanks for a very informative post Neil! :t:
I agree with you completely about ER - and that was the only reason for my critical comments.

Ilkka

 

[Richard JSH]

I'm using the Swarovski STS80HD scope with a variety of eyepieces.

Hello Neil,

You will probably think this a daft question. How would the Fuji F30 hold up with a scope that is not as expensive as a Swarovski. I am currently using an Opticron ES80 (not the high definition one) and am struggling with a Fuji 401. Yes, I know the camera is almost "steam driven" compared to the newer versions, but I am thinking of buying the F30 after your comments in this thread and am wondering whether I need to consider a fancier scope as well. My digiscoping aims are really just getting some decent, low noise, photos rather than expecting to be able to produce the outstanding photos you and your peers have been getting.

Cheers,

Richard.

 

[Neil]

Richard,
I started digiscoping with a US$100 Bushnell scope and was happy with the first images I got with the Nikon CP990. A new scope is going to make more difference to your images than a new camera. I got a big jump in quality by upgrading the Bushnell to a non-fluorite Kowa 821M, a smaller improvement (10%) with the Swarovski AT80HD and another 5% with the Swarovski STS80HD. The difference from the Nikon CP990 to the newer Olympus 7070wz is about 20% for speed of operation and 5% for image quality. The Fuji is 15% for operation (speed) and 2.5 % for image quality (low noise sensor) over the CP990. The biggest difference to my images over the years though has come with the quality of light. If it's not good a lot of the time when you digiscope then go with with a scope upgrade to a fluorite/HD type model.
I hope this helps the decision making process, Neil.
ps the early images in my gallery where taken with the Kowa

 

[Richard JSH]

Neil,

Thanks for the speedy response. Yes, your comments have helped. The view through my current scope, as far as the Mk 1 eyeball is concerned, is not bad at all and I would be happy for my images to replicate this. However, I am aware a camera will see and record what is viewed differently than the eye and so your comment about moving up to a higher definition scope makes sense.

My main problem with the Fuji 401 is the restrictive settings re: shutter speed. In other words, you can't dictate that shutter speed. I found this setting the most useful when I used to photograph aircraft with my "old fashioned" film SLR. Additionally, I do suffer from bad-light, doing most of my watching/photography in darkest Lancashire. As a result, noisy images and poor focus are the order of the day. I think, in the first instance, a camera upgrade will improve my image quality and also "reasonable image" strike rate which is appaling at the minute. However, I can see myself stashing some cash away for an HD scope in order to give me the best opportunity of some decent images. Obviously, upping my own skills level, as opposed to just buying better kit, will also figure!

Thanks again,

Richard.

PS. You will probably have gathered I am of the school of photography that says "bugger about with all the settings until you get it about right, then leave it like that till it goes wrong again" rather than the correct scientific approach!

 

[Forcreeks]

Thought I'd chime in, as I've been using the F30 a couple months now. All my recent Gallery posts are with the F30 if you want to see some more. Instead of waiting interminably for web review sites to do reviews of it, which took a good long time, I based my purchase within the first month of shipping in the U.S. on reviews for the F10/11, and considered the improved performance features the F30 was touted to have. I do wish the OB noise reduction could be adjusted, as this is suspect for the "artificial" look that has been referred to, and I've felt the same way. Many of the shots are excellent, but appear somewhat between "artwork" and photos. Isn't it interesting that cameras may now be blurring (to make a pun) the line between artwork and photography?

I agree with just about all Neil's observations; and btw enjoy your samples on this thread. I use mine with Kowa TSN-824 fluorite, a 1997 scope. Because I use a Universal adapter (you have to with F30) lens movement is not a problem unless you forget to shift the adapter before you ram the eyepiece! It's unusual to do so, because the lens is fully extended at full wide, and never advances further outward. During zoom it retracts then comes back to full extension during the late stages of full zoom. I always start with it adjusted to the e.p. at full wide, and try to shoot mostly at full wide for best light and sharpness. If I then zoom, it's no problem.

Neil, I was initially frustrated that I couldn't get the F30 to use shutter speed above 1/1000 sec. I then discovered that it goes above that speed only on some of the more automatic modes which means you can't control the ISO. Have you found any different than that? I use the A/S (aper/shutter) priority mode which is a single dial position and the choise of A or S mode is made with the central menu button. If you choose "S," you'll find you can't set a shutter speed above 1/1000. Same in "A" mode. I pointed it at a light bulb for overexposure to no avail.. still 1/1000 max.

As far as I know, regarding "noise," the small CCD's of compacts, will never equal the larger chips of DSLR's in low noise. If the small ones improve, then the larger will improve more. Compacts happen to be the right choice for digiscoping. However I've purchased a U.S. noise software, "Noise Ninja," and found the web/mail order makers of it to be very reliable and fast. It works quite well. Problem is the F30's picture has already been pre-processed so heavily. Still at ISO 800 and up, you can improve on it.

 

[Neil]

Fourcreeks, I haven't found a way around the 1/1000 th second in A Mode , except as you mentioned to go the more Automatic Modes. I can't understand the reasoning for that. When I'm in the Auto Modes and at iso 400 (to freeze action with moving subjects) I bump up the f stop a little to make sure that I don't go over . Particularly a problem with lighter subjects , like egrets. The trouble is if you go too far (above f5.6 ) I notice a darkening on the edges of the images so you have to be careful.
You get more noise if the camera gets too hot. I normally run my digicams on all the time so that I'm ready for any action that happens. With the 34c we get here all summer this may be introducing additional noise so I've started switching it off every so often. Noise is not going away until have the RAW capability. You could get the older Fuji E900zoom which has RAW or the newer Olympus P350. I almost bought one of these yesterday on a whim but the dealer didn't have stock. Neil.
ps I hear Dylan is playing in Portland and Joan Baez will be there in November. It must be a nice city to live in.

 

[Richard JSH]

Thought I'd chime in, as I've been using the F30 a couple months now. All my recent Gallery posts are with the F30 if you want to see some more.

Hello Forcreeks,

You have some splendid images there and obviously a love for ducks! I have taken the plunge and await delivery of my F30. Once I have fabricated an adapter and had a few trips out, I will post some photos and comments. I may even try to haul myself into a more scientific approach.

Kind regards,

Richard.

 

[Winterdune]

Hello Forcreeks,

You have some splendid images there and obviously a love for ducks! I have taken the plunge and await delivery of my F30. Once I have fabricated an adapter and had a few trips out, I will post some photos and comments. I may even try to haul myself into a more scientific approach.

Kind regards,

Richard.

Do let us know how you get on with your fabrication. I am still looking for a decent way to connect my F30 up to my Swarovski zoom eyepiece. Baeder Microstage works fine but is so big and clumsy. Foxfoto on ebay are working on a threaded tube to go with their universal lens adapter, but they haven't finished it yet...
Sean

 

[Richard JSH]

Do let us know how you get on with your fabrication. Sean

Hello Sean,

Day off today, so out into the garage to make the adapter.

I think the simple approach is best. As long as the camera is held reasonably steadily in front of the scope lens then the adapter should suffice.

The three photos are raw materials, finished adapter and how it all fits together. You should be able to get the plastic sheet and rectangular-section stock from any good model shop, particularly one that sells model railway stuff. The black pipe is off a length of drainpipe from B&Q. I used a good contact adhesive to glue it all together.

The pipe fits neatly over my Opticron HDF Zoom eyepiece and rests on the scope body. This holds the camera lens just above the scope lens once the camera is placed into the cradle end of the adapter. I had to reduce the diameter of the pipe at the camera end to get a snug fit around the lens surround. I did this by taking two 15mm sections of pipe, removing a small fillet from each which allows the remaining pieces to fit inside each other thereby reducing the pipe's internal diameter. If you can find a pipe that fits both camera lens surround and scope lens then happy days! The length of the pipe will obviously depend upon the length of the scope lens it has to fit over.

The adapter on the left is for my Fuji 401 and I have been using it for two years. The new one for the F30 is on the right. There is a tiny bit of play in the set up but I would imagine nothing more than could be induced by these huge metal clamps and swing-arms that are on the market.

Fitting the adapter is as simple as dropping it over the scope lens. When not in use, I sling it through a loop in the scope's carrying strap. Only downside are the funny looks you get from some people but they soon come around when they see that it does actually work.

Regards,

Richard.

 

[Winterdune]

Wow! Great and inspiring job! I'm off to the model shop on Saturday. Thanks for sharing your ingenuity.

Sean

Hello Sean,

Day off today, so out into the garage to make the adapter.

I think the simple approach is best. As long as the camera is held reasonably steadily in front of the scope lens then the adapter should suffice.

The three photos are raw materials, finished adapter and how it all fits together. You should be able to get the plastic sheet and rectangular-section stock from any good model shop, particularly one that sells model railway stuff. The black pipe is off a length of drainpipe from B&Q. I used a good contact adhesive to glue it all together.

The pipe fits neatly over my Opticron HDF Zoom eyepiece and rests on the scope body. This holds the camera lens just above the scope lens once the camera is placed into the cradle end of the adapter. I had to reduce the diameter of the pipe at the camera end to get a snug fit around the lens surround. I did this by taking two 15mm sections of pipe, removing a small fillet from each which allows the remaining pieces to fit inside each other thereby reducing the pipe's internal diameter. If you can find a pipe that fits both camera lens surround and scope lens then happy days! The length of the pipe will obviously depend upon the length of the scope lens it has to fit over.

The adapter on the left is for my Fuji 401 and I have been using it for two years. The new one for the F30 is on the right. There is a tiny bit of play in the set up but I would imagine nothing more than could be induced by these huge metal clamps and swing-arms that are on the market.

Fitting the adapter is as simple as dropping it over the scope lens. When not in use, I sling it through a loop in the scope's carrying strap. Only downside are the funny looks you get from some people but they soon come around when they see that it does actually work.

Regards,

Richard.

 

[Neil]

Richard, I'm very impressed. Well done. This would work very for cameras , like the Fuji F30, that can be set in one position and zoomed vignetting free through the lens zoom range. Neil.