gulls (18 Viewers)

[Cristian Mihai]

Same bird as in post # 1457. A 2cy bird in the background.

 

[tittletattler]

Hi chaps,

I had a juv michahellis at the local recycling centre yesterday.

If you could just confirm the ID, that would be appreciated. Please view the attached link.

http://www.kentos.org.uk/recentsigntings/july10NWKent.htm

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Hi chaps,

I had a juv michahellis at the local recycling centre yesterday.

If you could just confirm the ID, that would be appreciated. Please view the attached link.

http://www.kentos.org.uk/recentsigntings/july10NWKent.htm

Cheers,

Andy.

Looks good, Andy.

 

[JANJ]

Hi chaps,

I had a juv michahellis at the local recycling centre yesterday.

If you could just confirm the ID, that would be appreciated. Please view the attached link.

http://www.kentos.org.uk/recentsigntings/july10NWKent.htm

Cheers,

Andy.

I´d like to see that tail better Andy

JanJ

 

[tittletattler]

I´d like to see that tail better Andy

JanJ

o

Best I can do.

Thanks chaps. My concern was that it could be an LBB.

 

[lou salomon]

hi andy,

a spread tail --> usually more marked in LBBG, a spread wing --> stronger venetian blind in YLG would have been helpful. weak bill doesn't say anything because young michahellis can be quite slim billled. both are very similar in th rest of plumage, and variable...could well be a LBBG.

 

[JANJ]

The three together, you´ll see which is which:

http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/200668

Juv YLG and LBBG at this time can be difficult to separate in a view like the one of Andrews. Wear or any moult in scapular or coverts might help - altough some LBBG are similar in this respect, so maybe wear indicate better differences. In Andrews gull some wear is detectable in one upper scapulars in the far wing but probably not signific enoug to secure identification.

Note paler YLG here, with LBBG showing not fully grown primaries:

http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cyjuly/mich2256.htm

Selection of juv LBBG here:

http://waarneming.nl/soort/photos/1...2010-07-13&os=0&os=1&sex=&id_kleed=5&id_akt=0

YLG here:

http://waarneming.nl/soort/photos/2...2010-07-13&os=0&os=1&sex=&id_kleed=5&id_akt=0

Herring + YLG:

http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/JuvHGs_YLGs2008.html

Not forgetting this:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/juvmic/index.html

JanJ

 

[JANJ]

Recent arrivals of juv. YLG and Caspian Gull here, compare:

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228073

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228070

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228067

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228063

JanJ

 

[tittletattler]

Recent arrivals of juv. YLG and Caspian Gull here, compare:

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228073

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228070

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228067

http://www.artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageID=228063

JanJ

Fantastic selection of links as always. Very much appreciated!

I will work through the links later tonight I have however removed the photo from the website for now.

Thanks again to all,

Andy.

 

[tittletattler]

hi andy,

a spread tail --> usually more marked in LBBG, a spread wing --> stronger venetian blind in YLG would have been helpful. weak bill doesn't say anything because young michahellis can be quite slim billled. both are very similar in th rest of plumage, and variable...could well be a LBBG.

Thanks Lou. Very hard. I'll have to 'let this one go', I think.

The differences between LBBG and YLG can be quite subtle.

LBBG:

http://www.gull-research.org/ijmuiden/photos/406254.jpg

http://www.gull-research.org/lbbg1cy/images1cy/4259rb16.jpg

YLG:

http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/images/mich1cyjul/1895mich1cy.jpg

In general, LBBG seems to often have a gingery tone to the juvenile feather fringes whereas YLG seem whiter (as with my bird?). My bird also has a leggy feel to it.

I'll get back down to the recycling centre on Sunday and see if I can find some more juvs.

Cheers,

Andy.

Edit: Just been sent this. Tail is typical but not the inner primaries?

http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/aa_latestnews.htm

 

[tittletattler]

http://www.israel.gull-research.org/fuscus1cy/intermedius1cy4129.htm

!

 

[lou salomon]

Edit: Just been sent this. Tail is typical but not the inner primaries?

http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/aa_latestnews.htm

it has a paler belly than typical graellsii but - seriously, i'm suspicious if such a tail band isn't within variation of LBBG? baltic gulls at least can show such narrow tail bands: http://www.israel.gull-research.org/fuscus1cy/ht241121.html

and attached from 21.10.2009 sanpaul, RO, joszef szabo.

2nd pic: how i'd expect in a mich (black sea, 29.7.2006 cosmin manci) a venetian blind.

and colour tone of upperparts looks very cold. no really visible vanetian blind, i'd expect more in a mich.
nice juv herring gull beneath the portland bird.

 

[tittletattler]

it has a paler belly than typical graellsii but - seriously, i'm suspicious if such a tail band isn't within variation of LBBG? baltic gulls at least can show such narrow tail bands: http://www.israel.gull-research.org/fuscus1cy/ht241121.html

and attached from 21.10.2009 sanpaul, RO, joszef szabo.

2nd pic: how i'd expect in a mich (black sea, 29.7.2006 cosmin manci) a venetian blind.

and colour tone of upperparts looks very cold. no really visible vanetian blind, i'd expect more in a mich.
nice juv herring gull beneath the portland bird.

Thanks Lou. You make some very good points there.

 

[DunnoKev]

Thanks Lou. You make some very good points there.

Apologies everyone I normally wouldn't be seen dead around seagulls- just a private message for Tittletattler, pls empty your box, I'm bouncing...

 

[tittletattler]

Hi,

A different juvenile present today. Please see attached.

IMHO, a juvenile YLG. In flight this bird had an obvious veventian blind and a restricted tail band on an ostensibly white tail and rump.

What do you think please?

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[tittletattler]

And two more pics.

They're a bit dark but I can re-edit them if necessary.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[tittletattler]

Birdguides:

18/07 15:08 LONDON, GREATER : Yellow-legged Gull, Crayford [A]two (adult and juvenile) at the recycling centre

Well, someone agrees with the ID! I only posted these shots here so someone from Birdguides, RBA or East London must have seen these images. Also, well done to them for spotting the adult that was craftily kept in the first two cropped images.

For completeness, there were two other adults present too so four birds in total.

Also, as bizarre as this may sound, when the birds are on the recycling centre roof, they are in London. If they fly 30 yards to one of the mounds of rubbish, they are in Kent. Probably best to report them as 'Kent/London'. Furthermore, if they fly to the flooded fields, they are also in Kent. To confuse matters, either Multimap or Google show the whole site as being in Kent wheareas Ordnance survey maps show the boundary passing through the site.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[ekopa]

Hello!

Just wanted to post here a few pics of gulls from the Danube delta (this May). Confusingly the guide told me that all gulls there are YLG, but on my pics most are Caspians as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) except for IMG_2098 and IMG_2117.
2073/2074 I am not that sure about (they are from Bucharest)

 

[ekopa]

+ some more

 

[tittletattler]

most are Caspians as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) except for IMG_2098 and IMG_2117.

I think you've identified most of them correctly. The immature could be a YLG (too early for a pale iris for Caspian?). Nice selection of images too.

Cheers,

Andy.