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gulls (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter lou salomon
- Start date
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
and thanks for sharing these pics. again it's not at all easy to ID these 2cy and 3cy, most of which certainly look like YLG. did you notice pic 2 #1301 - to me this looks like one of the rare cases of a 2nd winter michahellis with a small p10 mirror! previously thought to be "impossible" but as we saw on GRF it is not. i think among romanian YLG adult birds with all white p10 tips (no black subterminal mark) and large p9 mirrors are more frequent than in western european populations (as mentioned by olsen in "gulls") - maybe such birds are prone to develope p10 mirrors in 2nd gen. primaries, like caspian gull. but we have to prove it is a YLG first...by the looks of its bill it is one.
notes on pics from 1-15 (last 3 posts):
1. the right hand one, prob. the male, is a 4cy or 5cy: solid black mark on bill and surprisingly pale yellow-orangey gape colour
2. = 3cy YLG: discussed above, with damaged wing, p8 looks twisted and a missing p9. aged by rounded p-tips, pale base to p10, tiny mirror and large yellow tip to bill. still dark iris.
3. very nice 2cy heinei common gull with pale underwing (variable but i think more such pale underwings are more oftnr found in heinei?)
4. = classic 2cy YLG in front and prob. another one in the background, but i wouldn't want to 100% exclude a cach.
5. = two 2cy YLG (i think). note pale bases to bill (uncommon in western YLG) and pale bases to outer primaries, p8-p10 (which i thought to be a exclusive feature of caspian until recently).
6. (continuing soon)
and thanks for sharing these pics. again it's not at all easy to ID these 2cy and 3cy, most of which certainly look like YLG. did you notice pic 2 #1301 - to me this looks like one of the rare cases of a 2nd winter michahellis with a small p10 mirror! previously thought to be "impossible" but as we saw on GRF it is not. i think among romanian YLG adult birds with all white p10 tips (no black subterminal mark) and large p9 mirrors are more frequent than in western european populations (as mentioned by olsen in "gulls") - maybe such birds are prone to develope p10 mirrors in 2nd gen. primaries, like caspian gull. but we have to prove it is a YLG first...by the looks of its bill it is one.
notes on pics from 1-15 (last 3 posts):
1. the right hand one, prob. the male, is a 4cy or 5cy: solid black mark on bill and surprisingly pale yellow-orangey gape colour
2. = 3cy YLG: discussed above, with damaged wing, p8 looks twisted and a missing p9. aged by rounded p-tips, pale base to p10, tiny mirror and large yellow tip to bill. still dark iris.
3. very nice 2cy heinei common gull with pale underwing (variable but i think more such pale underwings are more oftnr found in heinei?)
4. = classic 2cy YLG in front and prob. another one in the background, but i wouldn't want to 100% exclude a cach.
5. = two 2cy YLG (i think). note pale bases to bill (uncommon in western YLG) and pale bases to outer primaries, p8-p10 (which i thought to be a exclusive feature of caspian until recently).
6. (continuing soon)
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
I didn't notice the small mirror. I have 3 more pics with this bird (unfortunately, one of them, with the bird landing on ice, it's pretty blurry). I will upload them in the evening (the pics are on my home computer).
By the way, in the pic 5 post 1301, the bird one the ice is the same as in pics 1,4 and 5 from post 1302. This bird was very determined to keep the fish only for it. It was chasing away any other bird (two Hooded Crows and three 2cy large gulls in a period of about 15 minutes).
I didn't notice the small mirror. I have 3 more pics with this bird (unfortunately, one of them, with the bird landing on ice, it's pretty blurry). I will upload them in the evening (the pics are on my home computer).
By the way, in the pic 5 post 1301, the bird one the ice is the same as in pics 1,4 and 5 from post 1302. This bird was very determined to keep the fish only for it. It was chasing away any other bird (two Hooded Crows and three 2cy large gulls in a period of about 15 minutes).
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
quite an odd bird, cristian. if it's a YLG it is a very retarded one (got to be 3cy with 2nd gen primaries, primary coverts and that greater covert pattern) - hardly any grey scaps...if it's a caspian it is very coarse patterned. and its inner primary window is very pale. i've even considered herring gull but structure is off. please put it in the ID section of GRF!
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
Do you think that in the second pic (bird on ice) it's the same bird? It seems that I have memory problems 8-P
Do you think that in the second pic (bird on ice) it's the same bird? It seems that I have memory problems 8-P
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kristoffer
Used Register
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi kristoffer,
without an upperwing shot this will be hard but as suggested in two of the replies i'd favour a GBBG as well, a 3cy in this case.
best,
without an upperwing shot this will be hard but as suggested in two of the replies i'd favour a GBBG as well, a 3cy in this case.
best,
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
looking at the standing bird it could well be the one in flight but i have to check closer. anyway the standing one is a weirdo itself, very unusual GC and TT (tertial) pattern. not sure if that pale spot visible is the p10 mirror visible in both flight pics. as you know i'm working on a small laptop screen at the mo and have little time. perhaps tonight? it strongly reminds me of a bird that you posted some time ago, i think under the YLG section or in the bucharest section. got to look for it. and primaries are definitely 2nd gen. so it should be a 3cy but with hardly any grey scaps!
GRF people also keep away from the ID 8-P
edit: this one has a similarly strange Gc pattern (irregular) but apparently is a 2cy (1st winter):http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=200 (first bird), note however it has a largish pale bill tip as well.
ok, i found it in my saved pics: date is 29.12.2009, this one: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=234977&d=1262127200 - most prob. a 2cy and by the looks of it a 2cy too, so probably a different bird ? - hm, but it shows a hint of a p10 mirror too if i'm seeing it well. you know what, it is the same bird as the standing one in #1306. we have to prove if the flying pics are the same one though, since it has 2nd gen. primaries.
compare the 2 pics:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=242333&d=1265911762
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=234977&d=1262127200
lots of weirdos out there in bucharest....
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
"compare the 2 pics:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....3&d=1265911762
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....7&d=1262127200 "
Lou, you are right (as usual) - it's obviously the same bird. Both pics were taken in Tineretului.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....3&d=1265911762
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....7&d=1262127200 "
Lou, you are right (as usual) - it's obviously the same bird. Both pics were taken in Tineretului.
Attachments
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Larus marinus is a rare vagrant in Romania.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163981
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163981
kristoffer
Used Register
Thanks Lou!
Here is another pic of it.
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images/swe/birds/2010/large/191159.jpg
Here is another pic of it.
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images/swe/birds/2010/large/191159.jpg
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cris,
it looks identic to the bird in #1315 ergo it got to be the same ind., ain't it? and that's a striking 2cy micha, pic 3, with one of herastrau's abundant catfish (silurus glanis)! it got some 3rd gen scaps as well.
it looks identic to the bird in #1315 ergo it got to be the same ind., ain't it? and that's a striking 2cy micha, pic 3, with one of herastrau's abundant catfish (silurus glanis)! it got some 3rd gen scaps as well.
Steve Arlow
Well-known member
This bird has a certain Caspian feel to it, facial expression, small head, long neck, snouty face, long wings, long pale legs, hanging rear belly and strikingly white tail coverts and the pale underwing etc but there are a few features which lend the bird away from being a pure blood.
The tertials although very dark show a lot of white at the tips and the fringes, the bill pattern is suggestive more of a Herring Gull at 2nd winter age rather than of a Casp, the upperparts are to blue-grey (quite advanced), The extent of the barring on the upper-tail and under-tail coverts is extensive and bold.
The greater coverts are uniformly dark across the wing creating a constrasting dark panel when compared with the pale fringed median and lesser coverts. The white head certainly contrasts with the lower hind neck streaking.
On the spread wing there is little contrast across the primaries, the inners do not form an obious paler panel, and there is a small mirror to P10.
I've never seen a pure Caspian look like this, nor a Herring Gull for that matter, so I believe this bird is likely to a hybrid CaspianxHerring Gull.
The tertials although very dark show a lot of white at the tips and the fringes, the bill pattern is suggestive more of a Herring Gull at 2nd winter age rather than of a Casp, the upperparts are to blue-grey (quite advanced), The extent of the barring on the upper-tail and under-tail coverts is extensive and bold.
The greater coverts are uniformly dark across the wing creating a constrasting dark panel when compared with the pale fringed median and lesser coverts. The white head certainly contrasts with the lower hind neck streaking.
On the spread wing there is little contrast across the primaries, the inners do not form an obious paler panel, and there is a small mirror to P10.
I've never seen a pure Caspian look like this, nor a Herring Gull for that matter, so I believe this bird is likely to a hybrid CaspianxHerring Gull.
