Harry: Have you any idea what this parasite is? (1 Viewer)

[Wandered Scot]

Hello Harry, have you any idea what fly/wasp did this? Pictures were taken last night.

Both were attacked, both are now recovering, and all the offending larva are now cocooned, so will seperate them tonight.

Last year I had a similar incident in June I think it was, but that variety killed the caterpillar, but did go into similar cocoons. I suspect here same family, but different specie.

Are they actually emerging here, or growing here?

All the best.

Jim

 

[harry eales]

Hello Harry, have you any idea what fly/wasp did this? Pictures were taken last night.

Both were attacked, both are now recovering, and all the offending larva are now cocooned, so will seperate them tonight.

Last year I had a similar incident in June I think it was, but that variety killed the caterpillar, but did go into similar cocoons. I suspect here same family, but different specie.

Are they actually emerging here, or growing here?

All the best.

Jim

Hello Jim,
These appear to the the larva and cocoons of a Hymenopteran parasite possibly an Ichneumonoid species. Identifying them even in the adult stage is very difficult without modern keys.

What I would suggest you do is pack the larva and cocoons up, and send them to
Dr.Mark Shaw, C/O The National Museum of Scotland, Edinburgh, Scotland, for his attention. Dr. Shaw is known worldwide and specialises in Hymenopteran parasites, especially those predating on the larva of the Lepidoptera.

If anyone can ID these he will be able to. It appears unlikely that they are Dipterous parasites as these usually just change into a puparium without forming a cocoon. I have sent him several parasitic wasps in the past and he has always replied with an ID. Do include specimen data when sending them, it always helps in mapping the distribution of whatever species they turn out to be.

Sorry I can't be of more help,

Edit. These parasites will have fed internally within the caterpillar (one of your photo's shows one parasitic larvae actually emerging through the larval skin) and although the caterpillars may show signs of life at present I think you will find that they will die in a day or two. I have never known a lepidopterous larva survive multiple parasites feeding internally within them.
The parasitic larva only emerge from the host when fully fed and ready to pupate

Harry

 

[Wandered Scot]

Thanks Harry. Do you have a post code, and email address so that I can get in touch with him. Is there a fee for ID and should I dry pack them, as they are currently on a damp tissue?

Ta.

Jim

Edit. Just looked in again, after reading your comment, and since 11 this morning there is a notable deteriation in condition of the caterpillars. Your right on that point, it is certainly just a time factor now.

 

[harry eales]

Hello Jim,
Dr.Shaws Email is :- Deleted
I don't have a post code.

You would be best off by Emailing Dr. Shaw to ask about packing, I think it will be dry, but he will know best. I would suggest packing the caterpillar in a seperate container just to stop it damaging the small cocoons during transit. You could also ask about his work (museum) post code, in the same email.
I dont think he has a fee for ID work, he appears happy enough to do the work for the data he gets from the sender, It may pay you to ask though.

Harry

 

[Wandered Scot]

Thanks Harry.

 

[harry eales]

Thanks Harry.

No problem Jim. Anything to oblige.

My fee for sending this info is ...... lol.

Harry

 

[CJW]

Harry, do you think you should remove that Email address now that Jim has taken note of it?

 

[arthurgrosset]

The address is:
Chambers Street
Edinburgh EH1 1JF

I think he is on holiday until next Monday.

 

[harry eales]

Harry, do you think you should remove that Email address now that Jim has taken note of it?

It's done Chris, thanks for the prompt.

Harry

 

[AndrewParker]

As this is a communal parasite it may be a Braconid rather than an Icneumonid, another large family in the Icneumonoidea.

Andrew

 

[Wandered Scot]

Oh dear, internal security/screening threw the email back at me!! Not allowed to talk with these folks over our email system without authorisation. Is he a member on the Forum that I could private message him?

Or, Andrew, any of your folk intrested in playing about with them?

Thinking about men in Black,(not the ones in the film), I finally did get a very good response from the Austrian 'red list' people. There is no combined, complete list for the whole of Austria yet, but they are trying to get it sorted out. Meanwhile I can do a very technically complicated computer wizardy move (at least for me) that will allow me to get 75% of what I want on one file. So the Tech. Heads dept. can expect a visit soon.

Jim

 

[harry eales]

Oh dear, internal security/screening threw the email back at me!! Not allowed to talk with these folks over our email system without authorisation. Is he a member on the Forum that I could private message him?

Or, Andrew, any of your folk intrested in playing about with them?

Thinking about men in Black,(not the ones in the film), I finally did get a very good response from the Austrian 'red list' people. There is no combined, complete list for the whole of Austria yet, but they are trying to get it sorted out. Meanwhile I can do a very technically complicated computer wizardy move (at least for me) that will allow me to get 75% of what I want on one file. So the Tech. Heads dept. can expect a visit soon.

Jim

Hello Jim,

I suppose you could try telephoning him at Work, but I don't have the Museums number. He is not a member of this forum.

If you try a web search using his name, you may find a contact phone number there, or someone reading this post may have the number of The Royal Scottish Museum.

Just a thought, but can't you email him from home?

Harry

 

[Wandered Scot]

Harry, I did not have time to keep my computer updated with virus scanning, and I went and got some stuff on it that makes it do some odd things occasionally. Shortly after that I got the job here, and the system is virus protected, so I closed my internet account. As I am not one that spends hours surfing, and therefore Internet not essential for breathing or a 'fix', for what I need, I can do it here. Didn't I say I was Scottish too!?

Thanks again for advice.

Jim

 

[AndrewParker]

Or, Andrew, any of your folk intrested in playing about with them?

Sorry, not our thing. No-one here would have a clue!

Andrew.

 

[Wandered Scot]

Ohh. Thought I was gonna save some postage there!!

Thanks Andrew.

Jim

 

[arthurgrosset]

I sent a link to this thread to Mark Shaw. He asked me to post his reply:

The larva is probably Xestia xanthographa, or it could be a Noctua species – anyway it is a low-feeding noctuid that has overwintered as a youngish larva, and the cocoons are undoubtedly of a common gregarious parasitoid of the afore-mentioned genera (in which the parasitoids overwinter as small larvae in the overwintering caterpillar) called Glyptapanteles fulvipes (Haliday). This is Hymenoptera: Braconidae: Microgastrinae, and at one time it would have been included in the old concept of the well-known genus Apanteles (but the application of that name is now much more restricted). Caterpillars parasitized by parasitic wasps always die, even when (as with this species) much of the host is not consumed.

No need to send them to me this time – the det is certain from the host + cocoons in this case (though that is not usual). My email is (deleted - please contact arthurgrosset by PM if you want it), home phone 0131 667 0577 and I will always be pleased to try to determine reared parasitic wasps, especially if they are gifted to me.

 

[Wandered Scot]

Many Thanks Arthur, and Mark.

I really appreciate this reply, while I had actually thought I had put a parasite into a tub amongst the larvae, and was getting a bit upset with my carelessness. They have all hatched yesterday, 14/15th day after emerging and cocooning. It actually occured again with another larva, Geo. this time, which is when I started to doubt myself!!

Currently I have one other definite parasite specie pupated, and I believe another one although I can not be certain yet that I had overlooked this case/pupae when I made the small grass pot up. I set a larva inside to finish off and pupate as it was trying to bury it's self inside the rearing tub mulch. The pupae I have found is not moth and I found it 2 days after the expected pupation. I do not want to strip out the pot and disturb a possible pupation, but I will take photos of both tonight and post them up here tomorrow. I will also see about photographing one of the wasps, if you wish I will send a couple in an envelope, and as for the rest of the first brood, lets say I have a personal agenda for them!!!

Once again many thanks.

Jim

 

[arthurgrosset]

Jim,

I contacted Mark and he said he would rather receive specimens than just pictures. Could you send the parasitoids to him at:

Dr Mark R. Shaw
Keeper of Natural Sciences
National Museums of Scotland
Chambers Street
Edinburgh
EH1 1JF, UK

 

[Wandered Scot]

Arthur,

I will send 5. The rest are going to be singed, drawen and quartered, and sent to the four corners of our garden and orchard as a warning to others to leave our 'livestock' alone and not to waste my time!

Many thanks Arthur, I will enclose the other two new ones too.

Jim

 

[Wandered Scot]

Arthur/Mark,

Everything is in the post, or at least will be in a couple of hours when we take it to the post office.

Photo attached of two individual cocoons underway to the moister climes of Scotland. Left one, I had two times last year too, and as I said yesterday the right one I just don't know if it is chance, or something related to the Geo.

Ciao

Jim