Hawk ID Please (1 Viewer)

[mrcolin2u]

Any suggestions what this is. Took the picture yesterday in San Diego wetland area. Maybe an immature red shouldered hawk?

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/171034/limit/recent

 

[howell7079]

Nice picture. I am pretty new to birding but if I had to guess it is a swainson's hawk or a red tailed hawk.

 

[cavan wood]

The long wings and white forehead has me thinking swainson's, but doesn't look real common there on the range maps. The eye colour seems off though. Not too familiar with western birds.

Scott

 

[Robert / Seattle]

I'm also thinking Swainson's. Looks like an intermediate/dark juvenile.

 

[Tim42]

Looks like a dark form of juvie RT Hawk.

 

[chubri777]

It's a Rufous morph Red tail juv.

 

[ceasar]

It looks like a dark morph or dark intermediate juvenile "Western" Red-tailed Hawk. (B. j. calurus) Note light iris. See plates 351 through 357 in Wheeler's Raptors of Eastern North America[/U. Westerns aren't common east of the Mississippi, but quite common west of the Rockies. Juv. and adult Swainson's have medium brown iris's per Wheeler. Talon's look too big to be a juv. dark morph Rough-legged hawk and too small to be a dark morph Ferruginous Hawk. I can't figure out that white forehead though.
Bob

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

This is kind of a weird looking bird. I believe it is an intermediate aka "rufous" morph Red-tailed Hawk. The plumage is largely that of an adult, with the breast being too solidly reddish for a juvenile. Since the pale iris can be retained through two years of age, it suggests this is a relatively young bird, but in at least its second plumage cycle. Throw in a rather extensive whitish forehead, and you've got an odd looking bird.

Nice picture too!

Chris

 

[Robert / Seattle]

Hi All,

This is kind of a weird looking bird. ... Throw in a rather extensive whitish forehead, and you've got an odd looking bird.

Nice picture too!

Chris

Ditto on that.

 

[goshawk227]

Juvenile Red-tailed Hawk. Notice the very large, heavy body with a smaller head, Swainson's would be much sleeker overall, also white on a Swainson's would be on the chin as well. Swainson's should also have wingtips that project beyond the tail tip, which would be visible in this picture.

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

Okay, since I'm outnumbered five to one, can someone tell me why this bird is a juvenile?

Granted Red-tailed Hawks are extremely variable, but as I understand it, a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk of any color morph, subspecies, etc. should not exhibit extensive rufous underparts. The mystery bird shows a very rusty breast with a few narrow brownish streaks, and a lot of additional rufous in the vent area. As I said in my earlier post, iris color can remain pale for up to two years (fide Brian Wheeler). Juvenile intermediate morph Red-tails typically show some white streaking or rufous streaking to the breast (less solidly rufous) and have more strongly barred rectrices. It seems reasonable to assume that a combination of pale eyes and adult plumage indicates a bird that is roughly one to two years old. :h?:

Chris

 

[talon_dfa]

I agree with Juvy Red-tail.

Be careful about the wingtip past the tail character. I have seen SWHAs that did not have wingtips extend past the tail and I have seen Western RTHAs (esp. Juv) that did have wingtips extending past the tail.

Wheeler & Clark (Photo guide to NA Raptors) has pics of SWHA with shorter wings.
(SH16,17,19,21,23) & RT28 shows adult RTHA with wing-tips very close, if not extending past tail.

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

Okay, since I'm outnumbered five to one, can someone tell me why this bird is a juvenile?

Make that six to one. :-O Anyone up for setting me straight. I'm really confused now.

Chris

 

[AStevenson]

Chris,

I'm kind of with you - tail pattern doesn't seem to show the strength and number of bars expected on juv RTH (but I have less experience of RTH than you guys), looks more adult like, and Clark & Wheeler's North American Raptors has a photo RT29 of an ad western RTH with pale eyes - it could be wrongly labelled I suppose?

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[talon_dfa]

Make that six to one. :-O Anyone up for setting me straight. I'm really confused now.

Chris

Chris:
No doubt this is a strange bird.

I agree it has been documented that some birds can keep the light eye for several years (RT29 as pointed out by Astevenson), but of the 100s of RTHAs that I have had the pleasure to see up close, I don't ever remember seeing a bird with light eyes past September of 2nd Year (photo taken in Dec.) I can not give you any numbers, but I believe the proportion of RTHAs with light eye in Dec of 2nd year would be very low.

Is that enough evidence for my Juvy call? Probably not.
(But that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)

However, I would like to see the dorsal side of the tail.

 

[JANJ]

One can somehow understand the Swainson´s choice here - mostly beacause the rather clear-cut promonent white patch at the forehead, but see this RTH:

http://www.pbase.com/garrettlau/image/86947879

As Chris say´s 'older immatures' with pale iris. Western calurus has long wings and will overlap with Swainson´s.

Wide dark malar area, dark undertail coverts (as in some Swainson´s) actually quite dark throat and the hint of a darker breast band
(not as obvious as this one though:http://www.pbase.com/image/80259748)
but clear enough suggest RTH.

JanJ

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

Thanks talon_dfa for getting the ball rolling.

When I first looked at the mystery bird, I was struck by the feathering. As another one who looks at lots of raptors, it really struck me as being adult-like. But what about the eye color? That puzzled me too. So I hit the books.

On page 318 of Brian Wheeler's Raptors of Western North America it states at the beginning of the Red-tailed Hawk species account, under AGES:

Iris color gradually darkens with age. Birds in full adult plumage when 2 years old may still have rather pale irises. Subadult plumage is attained when 1 year old and is similar to adult plumage, but birds have pale irises, retain some juvenile remiges, and regularly retain a few juvenile rectrices. Juvenile plumage is held for much of the first year.

The plates in this book show several examples of pale eyed adults. As Andrew mentioned, so does RT29 in Wheeler & Clark's photographic guide. It would seem like we should be able to discount the eye as a critical aging tool in this case.

Using the modified H-P terminology, we have three age classes, juvenile (Basic I), Basic II, and definitive basic. I think that the feathering is indicative of something other than juvenile, thus either Basic II (assuming the second prebasic molt was extensive), or perhaps even Basic III.

But let's ignore eye color for a moment. Can anyone comment of the coloration of the feathering that is visible? Can anyone direct me to images of a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk with similar coloration? Ignoring the eye color and extent of white on the forehead, the bird resembles this adult intermediate morph Red-tailed Hawk.

Looking at the underside of the bird's tail, we can see some patterning on the outermost rectrix. To me, it looks like a mostly pale tail with a darker subterminal band near the tip, but otherwise it looks paler and unpatterned. Now compare that pattern with any published images of juvenile Red-tailed Hawk tails. I submit that the underside of the rectrices of a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk should show multiple fine dark bars, like this.

As these raptors are tricky, I look forward to further debate. :brains: I'm glad though for some agreement from Andrew and Jan. |=)|

Chris

 

[JANJ]

As mentioned by Chris and from Wheeler pale-eyed adult looking birds are not unusual.

http://www.pbase.com/image/80259741

The tail in the subject bird doe´s have bars although very weak and broader than on a juvenile and no subterminal marking worth noting. and rather similar to this one:

http://www.pbase.com/julienbrisson/image/88194437

http://www.pbase.com/julienbrisson/image/88194438

Question is how much can we expect at least a one year old RTH - which have undergone a near complete moult - which would include the tail - not to show any rufous on its tail?

Check this 2cy ? (basic 11) and note the rad tail coming in:

http://www.pbase.com/image/62580139

same bird:

http://www.pbase.com/image/62998721

JanJ

 

[mrcolin2u]

A friend has suggested a rough-legged hawk,which are uncommon in the area,but a possibility.
The size of the bird imho,was slightly (only slightly) smaller than a typical red tailed hawk.
It was a heavy-set strong looking bird though.
I will post a picture of it as it took off,so you can see its wing feathers from below.
Thanks for all the replies on this,by the way. It has me baffled??
Colin

 

[chubri777]

Chris.
I'm changing to adult intermediate Rufouf morph Red tail myself. I see soooooooooo many of these I only half-assed looked at the pic last night and thought the tail appeared more heavily banded/barred that it does now on closer investigation.
That might help your odds for what it's worth