Hedge Accentor! (3 Viewers)

[Jasonbirder]

Surely language belongs to the people who use it - hence the need for constantly updated dictionaries (for example who uses the word gay to describe carefree and cheerful these days?)
Whilst in the academic world of the BOU there is a logic behind Lapland longspur and Hedge Accentor there is no real justification for it in the real world - its OK to say one "official" name and one that birders use whenever they want - but what is the sense in a name (officially sanctioned or not) that no-one uses and plenty of people actively dislike!
Why the BOU can`t listen sensibly to what the majority of British Birdwatchers want is beyond me and certainly nothing for them to be proud of! After all the world hasn`t stopped spinning on its axis because British birders call Divers "Divers" and Americans call them "Loons" has it?

 

[Edward woodwood]

the reason why the BOU don't listen to the majority of birders is the same reason politicians don't listen to the majority of the public - their views are generally (note the word generally please!) reactionary and made with little wisdom. after all if politicians listened to the average Joe or Josephine we'd be hanging people from lamp posts and sending everyone who looked like a foreigner back where they came from!

 

[Bluetail]

You could of course argue that the fact that the majority of politicians aren't willing to hang people from lamp posts is evidence of wisdom - and, by extension, accord similar attributes to the BOURC. I strongly suspect that both they and politicians feel that whatever they do, they can't win, so they might as well make up their own minds about what's best for us.

Jason

 

[Edward woodwood]

absolutely Jason
my point in a nutshell!
and generally the BOU and politicians are wiser than the general birder and general public.

 

[Jasonbirder]

Ah I see....as a card carrying member of the general public (and a birder to boot) I`ll quite happily accept what my betters (political and ornithological) pronounce is good for me, comfortable in the knowledge that I am too poorly informed, ill educated and ignorant to be able to make up my own mind!

 

[cuddy]

Still call them Hedge Sparrows myself.

 

[Edward woodwood]

good
keep it like that

as a fully fledged Red (that's a Socialist and not a Forest/Man U. fan) I'm not one to bow down to my 'superiors'. But when people are better informed than me, as are I guess the BOU, then I do pay suitable respect to their work etc.....

 

[Bluetail]

Ah I see....as a card carrying member of the general public (and a birder to boot) I`ll quite happily accept what my betters (political and ornithological) pronounce is good for me, comfortable in the knowledge that I am too poorly informed, ill educated and ignorant to be able to make up my own mind!

No no. If you prefer, you can make up your mind as an informed and educated savant. And happiness doesn't enter into it, honestly.

Jason

 

[Mike D]

Well done Mike D, let's stick to the old, and best name, ie Dunnock = 'little brown job'.

And while we're at it let's do the same with the Robin and go back to his old name, ie Ruddock = 'little red job'.
As I understand it historically it's name has changed as follows: Ruddock, Redbreast, Robin Redbreast, Robin.

Ye olde Alan Hill.

Hi Alan,

No 'Historic' reason as far as I'm concerned - I was brought up (in East Anglia) to call 'em 'Dunnocks', and 'Dunnocks' is easier to say than Hedge Accentors, and so on ad nauseum.
Besides - 'Bearded Reedlings' to me remain Bearded Tits ('Beardies' for short).

No, sorry but the way I see it is, as long as I know I'm right in the ID, call them Fred, Joe or Harry. I don't intend trying to impress anyone with my vast knowledge (?) by falling into line because some comittee somewhere, for some unknown (to me) and unimportant (to me) reason decides that a name which has survived for probably centuries is 'Wrong'. [QUOTE THE LOCAL GURU: "Oh no, didn't you know - their name is now 'Lesser Spotted Cow-Patch. Oh dear - you ARE falling behind".]

I say we should poll the birds themselves. I believe this is the modern modus operandii. Make sure we get a concensus, and then we will all know we are right.

As I learned a long time ago - what the h**l is in a name?

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Mike,

I say we should poll the birds themselves. I believe this is the modern modus operandii. Make sure we get a concensus, and then we will all know we are right.

I asked several by what name they'd like to be known by. Got the same answer every time, 'Tseep'. So from henceforth, Prunella modularis is to be known as Tseep, in deference to their wishes.

:king:

 

[Mike D]

Hi Michael
I thought the Great Bard (or someone!) had already named four to "Cuckoo, Jug-Jug, Peewit and Tuwhit Tuwhoo" excuse spelling if wrong.
I am easy on three, but not sure which one is Jug-Jug!

 

[Bluetail]

Not Shakespeare, but Thomas Nashe:

Summer's Last Will and Testament

Spring, the sweet Spring, is the year's pleasant king;
Then blooms each thing, then maids dance in a ring,
Cold doth not sting, the pretty birds do sing,
Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!

The palm and may make country houses gay,
Lambs frisk and play, the shepherds pipe all day,
And we hear aye birds tune this merry lay,
Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!

The fields breathe sweet, the daisies kiss our feet,
Young lovers meet, old wives a-sunning sit,
In every street these tunes our ears do greet,
Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!
Spring! The sweet Spring!

These are calls, so - a pure guess - I'd suggest Reed Warbler for jug-jug.

Of course it might have been a relative of this one:

Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
Beware the Jub-Jub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!.
Beware the Jabberwock, my son.

Jason :scribe:

 

[Mike D]

Hi Bluetail,
'Sorry' to the Bard!
But, along the lines of poetry, no pun this time, another poem which I have been trying to find for many years is one which I learned at school entitled 'Evening', by Walter De La Mere. It also makes mention of birds. Tried on the www many times but without success. Could you, or any of the many knowledgeable members out there point me to a book (in- or out-of-print) which has this poem?
It would be brillig if I could finally get hold of all the lines.

 

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Hi Bluetail,
'Sorry' to the Bard!
But, along the lines of poetry, no pun this time, another poem which I have been trying to find for many years is one which I learned at school entitled 'Evening', by Walter De La Mere. It also makes mention of birds. Tried on the www many times but without success. Could you, or any of the many knowledgeable members out there point me to a book (in- or out-of-print) which has this poem?
It would be brillig if I could finally get hold of all the lines.

I can't find a poem entitled "Evening" here - but could you be mis-remembering the actual title?

http://www.nth-dimension.co.uk/vl/author.asp?id=116

You've set me a task here, if this doesn't help!!!

 

[Bluetail]

I don't know it either, I'm afraid, but I used to have musical composition lessons from a chap who was a friend of de la Mare's and he set one of his poems called "Before Dawn" which has the lines:

All flowers and butterflies lie hid,
The blackbird and the thrush
Pipe but a little as they flit
Restless from bush to bush;
Even unto the robin Gabriel hath
Cried softly, "Hush!"
....
No lark at casement in the sky
Sings mattins shrill and clear;

Birds crop up quite regularly in de la Mare's poems, I think!

Jason