Herring Gull Type. N.Somerset. England. 21.12.14 (2 Viewers)

[phil baber]

This Herring Gull "type" had a pronounced white tertial crescent and large white mirrors in the tips. Pinkish legs and an "unusual Fulmar/Iceland Gullish face." It stood out amongst the other Herrings. One grab shows the "spread wing-tip."
What do you think this bird is? Argentatus? Grateful for any info. Thanks! :t:

 

[phil baber]

More... (PS Sorry for quality of vid grabs! Bad light and near dusk.)

 

[HH75]

Hi Phil,
I really don't get the vibe of an identifiable argentatus from this bird. The classic birds, probably from the extreme NE of the cline, tend to be big bulky things, with very obviously dark grey upperparts (on a par with michahellis Yellow-legged Gull, though perhaps with a slight bluish tinge to the grey), longer bills, pinkish wash to the bill base (on otherwise adult birds) and I'd expect one to have much more head streaking than this in late December (though this is variable within populations of Herring Gull).
I don't see why it's not just a local bird that's attained summer plumage earlier than most? It's not that unusual to see white-headed Herring Gulls from now on, a pitfall for people who look for white heads to pick out a Yellow-legged Gull candidate at this time of year. There seems to be a lot of white on P10 (the outermost primary), but I really don't see anything special about the spread wing pattern to suggest argentatus, either. I suppose it could be something from southern Scandinavia, or the populations in the Low Countries, but local argenteus could show something similar, particularly as the grab (of necessity) lacks sharpness.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Looks like an argentatus to me indeed.

 

[phil baber]

Thanks HH and VS. My county recorder has also favoured argentatus. Female. But the case is not clear.
I'd favour this ID on wing-tip alone. Any more comments? No lottery win in the balance here. Just ID tips for learning for others. Thanks a lot!

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Argentatus has darker mantle than argenteus. Compared here with Common Gull, it is almost as dark, while argenteus would be pale almost like Black-headed Gull.

 

[phil baber]

Thanks Valery. Nice comparison with BHGull in the grabs, showing darker mantle.

 

[lou salomon]

primary pattern seems to suggest nominate argentatus (it has large mirrors and black on p6 is reduced).
however, in iceland argenteus is interbreeding with glaucous gull producing a large number of herring gull types/hybrids with reduced black in wingtip. so, if mantle colour was as pale as in comparable argenteus it might be an icelandic bird.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

primary pattern seems to suggest nominate argentatus (it has large mirrors and black on p6 is reduced).
however, in iceland argenteus is interbreeding with glaucous gull producing a large number of herring gull types/hybrids with reduced black in wingtip. so, if mantle colour was as pale as in comparable argenteus it might be an icelandic bird.

I agree with that, but specifically it seems (in comparison with BHG and CG) that we have a bird dark enough for argentatus.

 

[phil baber]

primary pattern seems to suggest nominate argentatus (it has large mirrors and black on p6 is reduced).
however, in iceland argenteus is interbreeding with glaucous gull producing a large number of herring gull types/hybrids with reduced black in wingtip. so, if mantle colour was as pale as in comparable argenteus it might be an icelandic bird.

Lou,
thanks for another interesting angle. This bird was very strange, especially in the "face department." It had all the hallmarks of Argentatus. But the face resembled a cross between a Fulmar and an Iceland Gull. Could the facial structure result from swelling and previous injury? Or hybridisation? It looks a "female type", but something about the facial structure rankles. Happy Christmas btw! B To all!

 

[phil baber]

So? Any more thoughts on this gull?